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nathaniel

[12.08.23] KBS debating whether to air Eunjung and Jiyeon's cameo appearance in "Shut Up Family"

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Why the h*** does kbs need to announce that they are debating on airing EunJung and Jiyeon's cameo?

Just shut up and air it!

KKS should be the one getting the blame for all this drama.

What is he doing now????

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T-ara controversy for the first time was given in an opened discussion on Echannel aired on 23/08. With the participation of 14 journalists from different sections as: sport, ent, economy….. All of them have agreed that it was not T-ara fault but netizens. They gave their POV that netizens have destroyed T-ara image and called this is a “step back” of Hallyu wave

Cr: t-aravn.net

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The Thousandth Man PD's Twitter Translation [23082012]

hyotheleader:

tumblr_m97fxo9xrA1qfuhrd.png

To drama producers, issues of production sponsorship, PPL etc are no doubt important, but to tamper with the drama’s plan for these issues is not the way. A production that succeeds relying on despicable things, is very muddled. Although the production sponsorship for The Thousandth Man is zero ㅠ I will not give up. Money is something that you will have when you work harder.

ENG TRANS by (@
kckclalala
) via Chinese trans by
@hameunjungbar

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Is that an actual poll? Or someone thinking out loud (loud enough for everyone to hear)? I suddenly wish haters (not!) would just bash again, that's just bite and no bark.

2 x-bs news in as many days... What a week this turns out to be...

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I don´t care this stupid program. LEAVE HAM EUNJUNG ALONE!!!!!!!!!

if TV chanels are so cowards at least stop using t-ara name to promote your xxxxing TV chanel and don´t show them but don´t metion them, leave them alone. If you´re going to delete them from TV dramas, shows, publicity etc DO IT THEN, because in Korea people first nail the knife and after ask themselves if the person was guilty but don´t say you´re evaluating to show them just to promote the stupid program.

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This is bad... Should we start to worry about Soyeon's apperance in Haeundae Lovers too?

I´m alredy worried since her accident, that´s a good excuse for coward TV chanels .

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Man they are really letting them have it. THis is low and pathetic. Seriously what a bunch of chickenshits the networks are.

I'm sorry for my potentially foul language but this just really ticks me off. I'll try to show some restraint in the future.

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I thought this issue has slowly died down and is becoming normal now. But the netizens and antis sure know how to manipulate the minds of the producers and persuade them to cancel some of the appearances of the girls. I hope that KKS will really learn from this happenings and make a great effort to bring T-ARA back on the spotlight and regain their crown. T-ARA is like the main idol group of CCM, and the management should know how to fix this problem (using proper and legal actions.)

It really breaks my/our hearts seeing our favorite group rejected by the people. If it hurts us then most likely, it hurts them even more. I also feel sad for Areum and Dani's positions, they're the new members which KKS said that will make the group stronger and better, but even before Dani is added to the group & Areum has made her debut this issue suddenly came. I just hope everything turns back to the way it was before. And the girls would be okay and support each other still. I don't want them to disband. T_T

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Did everybody miss, let alone forgot, our Soyeon's Interview about this "misunderstanding"? :blink: I guess the antis did. <_<

Slow your role, keyboard warrior. Calling anybody an anti won't do you any good. Like I said, the silence did nobody any favors. That interview came out what, like last week sometime? Near two weeks of deafening silence from T-ara and guess what? The issue is still unresolved in the public's eyes. Don't be delusional, that interview solidified the bullying issue as unfortunate as it may be but bridges can be rebuilt. CCM pulled some miracles sweeping some crazy stuff under the rugs, but this is a hot issue and the media is hungry. The fans, rather I, just want all tension, if any, between the members to be squashed and things to go back to normal [one can hope, right?]. How's that for an "anti's" opinion. You think I enjoy T-ara going through this BS? As my favorite group by far, I've always held T-ara to a higher regard than other groups, and I will continue to do so.

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i'm pissed off with netizen n media..i really want to see t-ara..isn't the controversy is done..stop it..this is too much..there is no need to debate..if they can aired soyeon's drama why not eunjung n jiyeon..it just cameo..gosh..kbs, you got great actress from dream high n you gonna waste it??got brain??huh..i don't know what else to say..kbs doesn't appreciate others work..its all about money..t-ara please stay strong..i feel sorry towards them..only if i could help t-ara n make them happy..i miss t-ara so much..

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I can't stand seeing these girls losing all they have worked for so many years !

It is so unfair...and all because of K-netizen ! These girls are also human and have feelings.

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Slow your role, keyboard warrior. Calling anybody an anti won't do you any good.

Nor is calling the public a bunch of mindless, delusional, easy to manipulate, zealots is a good thing either. Agreed?

Like I said, the silence did nobody any favors. That interview came out what, like last week sometime? Near two weeks of deafening silence from T-ara and guess what? The issue is still unresolved in the public's eyes.

And as I pointed out, the people, including those who dislike/hate T-ara, requested an official statement from the members. Soyeon, being the leader of the group and member, "officially" spoke about it, and guess what, the group of people who dislike/hate T-ara simply "DID NOT BELIEVE HER ONE BIT!" Which inevitably made them contradict their entire views and beliefs, and then continued their dark crusade against them, all because they didn't get the answers they completely believe in, which happens to be false.

Don't be delusional, that interview solidified the bullying issue as unfortunate as it may be but bridges can be rebuilt.

About that name calling again? <_< And her statements clearly said that they were disagreements and polarized point of views amongst the members, and definitely "not bullying", because they didn't want to go that far, nor have Hwayoung removed at all. It was the 19 statements by the staff members that changed all of that, not the members. Soyeon clearly stated that they all wanted a solution to resolve their differences from another point of view. How does all of this "solidify" bullying or even prove that the members were bullying each other? :huh:

If disagreements are defined as bullying, then that means both you and I are bullying each other right now, right? Do you feel bullied? :huh:

CCM pulled some miracles sweeping some crazy stuff under the rugs, but this is a hot issue and the media is hungry.

Is there proof that this "really happened"? Witnesses? Better yet, show us this "crazy stuff" and it's "specific hidden location". The media is hungry for anything, so what. :rolleyes:

The fans, rather I, just want all tension, if any, between the members to be squashed and things to go back to normal [one can hope, right?].

Indeed, it is unfortunate that there are those who just can't understand the sheer gravity of this situation and take this so out of context. -_-

How's that for an "anti's" opinion. You think I enjoy T-ara going through this BS? As my favorite group by far, I've always held T-ara to a higher regard than other groups, and I will continue to do so.

Then why the encouragement to continue to go along with the separation of Hwayoung from the group? Why support and treat the possibilities that alleged "bullying" accusations are true? Why underrate the newest members without leaving enough room to prove themselves? Why must you create an inner conflict within yourself, in the first place?

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Wow where do I start. Am I flattered to be quoted multiple times or should I be upset that you not only butchered my points but then threw words in my mouth?

-Nor is calling the public a bunch of mindless, delusional, easy to manipulate, zealots is a good thing either. Agreed?

Your words, not mine. I'll have my opinion on the general public and you your's.

-And as I pointed out, the people, including those who dislike/hate T-ara, requested an official statement from the members. Soyeon, being the leader of the group and member, "officially" spoke about it, and guess what, the group of people who dislike/hate T-ara simply "DID NOT BELIEVE HER ONE BIT!" Which inevitably made them contradict their entire views and beliefs, and then continued their dark crusade against them, all because they didn't get the answers they completely believe in, which happens to be false.

If people who dislike T-ara didn't believe the interview, that is their issue. Sorry where in my post did I ever say I doubted her? Soyeon was one of multiple parties involved. If there was a fight among 2-3, do you take one person's word and make conclusions from that? Don't answer that, I fear for your answer.

-About that name calling again? And her statements clearly said that they were disagreements and polarized point of views amongst the members, and definitely "not bullying", because they didn't want to go that far, nor have Hwayoung removed at all. It was the 19 statements by the staff members that changed all of that, not the members. Soyeon clearly stated that they all wanted a solution to resolve their differences from another point of view. How does all of this "solidify" bullying or even prove that the members were bullying each other?

If disagreements are defined as bullying, then that means both you and I are bullying each other right now, right? Do you feel bullied?

Don't be offended by me calling you delusional. That was more to give you a hint to see things from my point. Which I guess you're trying because you've made some opinions for me which I don't recall having. Good effort, bad execution though. I won't get into a pissing match between words because you and I definitely haven't watched the same interview.

And no I don't consider this bullying. A member came at me sideways, called me an anti and picked apart my post and butchered any point I made. Don't think I'd let that slide.

-Is there proof that this "really happened"? Witnesses? Better yet, show us this "crazy stuff" and it's "specific hidden location". The media is hungry for anything, so what.

You use a lot of "quotes" and you sure use them "wrong." Example of crazy things CCM has put the lid on? The Jiyeon/webcam thing, T-ara's initial criticisms by media for bad attitude, outfits and sporting a rival team's color. Ok, not exactly crazy because they're old and no longer significant. Wait I think I just proved my point. Onto the next butchering...

-Indeed, it is unfortunate that there are those who just can't understand the sheer gravity of this situation and take this so out of context

So far the only person taking things out of context is you. Don't lose sleep on it though, we're not perfect.

-Then why the encouragement to continue to go along with the separation of Hwayoung from the group? Why support and treat the possibilities that alleged "bullying" accusations are true? Why underrate the newest members without leaving enough room to prove themselves? Why must you create an inner conflict within yourself, in the first place?

And here we reach the great slaughtering of my post. I never wanted Hwayoung to leave. I supported this girl from day one. Against people who didn't see the need for a new member. Against people saying she was a terrible rapper. Against people saying she was the downfall of the group. She's no longer in T-ara and it kills me. But if that's the route taken, I can do nothing about it. I've already voiced my view on the bullying situation multiple times. Not gonna bring that here as that wasn't the point of this topic nor any of my previous posts here. This thing about the new members came out of nowhere. While everyone was busy roasting them, doing them worse than they did Hwayoung, I'm one of few actually encouraging members to accept them. You wouldn't know anything about supporting other fans though, would you? Seems like all you do is instigate things.

But yes this was great. I love supporting T-ara only to find someone come from left field and totally spin everything wrong. Dead it right there. IDK what sort of point you're trying to make. If you want to continue, I am available by PM. I'm sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way. But as I stated, calling me an anti and then picking apart my post, you're stirring up something you shouldn't.

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@Emperor Ryu

...Um, where to start. I guess GRIMLOCK already took you to task, but you seem to have misunderstood very many of the points I was trying to make.

Are there many people on this forum who dislike Hwayoung at this point? I've seen a number of negative comments about her since the outbreak, but only from maybe five people or so. In any case, I hope you haven't been dealing with those criticisms too badly, it seems to be getting to you. If anything, that weekend of the 28th I tended towards believing that Hwayoung was being singled out for something. Not that she was being "bullied" - and I hate how the use of that word has escalated everything - but that there was some disagreement where it was 1 vs x.

And there's no good in pointing any fingers at Hwayoung either. I think she's only as media-savvy as the others, at best, so I don't think she would know how to reach out to the reporters herself to make a statement, and I'm under the impression that her Twitter is still tied up in her CCM life. I figure her silence is similar to that of the others - I figure she's made at least a verbal agreement with Mr. Kim not to say anything more about the subject, and now that she's more or less back to being her parents' daughter, I'm pretty sure they don't want her going public about all this either.

She worked pretty hard to get as good as she got, and she started from far from an ideal start (being tossed in like she was). I liked her. Third or fourth favorite, even before all this. She got a raw deal from the outset, and it's just another on the laundry list of wrongs hurled at those girls.

I don't know, let's get to it, piecemeal, I guess.

-A typical thinking example of an modus operandi in a anti.

Let me start by saying you don't seem to understand what I was saying - or, if you did, I don't understand why you would attribute it to anti thought processes. Let me reduce the language: I believe it is still Mr. Kim's standing order not to address the situation directly. I think it would be understandable if any of the girls were to defy those orders. But, all things considered, it would probably be best they did not, for the time being.

As for tossing the anti-bomb around like that... Way to jump to conclusions on a head full of steam and with just the scantest of evidence. Funny, but I remember a certain segment of the population doing exactly that.

-Yeah, I think we all like proof that this was all a stage play, instead of repeating it over like it's the truth or something.

The more I go over your comments, the more smug you seem.

Again, let me clarify: Either 1) the KBS producers of Shut up Family are like the producers of 5F, who lacked backbone and caved to the pressure from the advertisers, or 2) the Shut up Family producers are simply releasing the statement to test the waters, and then decide either way based on what the popular response is, while claiming they were always planning to do whatever they end up doing (either way making it seem like they were making some moral stance that just happened to fall in line with public sentiment).

Let me skip one and get back to the America stuff afterwards.

- Actually it was 3 days, not 5. <_<

That weekend, between the Friday announcement and the Monday announcement may be counted as three days, but there were five days between the posts on Twitter and the Monday announcement. :huh:

But I'm not really sure why you're getting on my case about that and the accident thing - are you defending Mr. Kim and the agency? Because that was a list of the mistakes he's made with regards to the current controversy. If you look (more) carefully, I brought up the accident to say that people were willing to make those speculations because Mr. Kim has the reputation of being someone who just might do something like that.

-What does the U.S. entertainment specifically have to do with the T-ara situation?

So to take both of your questions about my America comments together... Like I said, if I were invited to discuss my issues with any of the American practices I don't like, I could say many things. But for the most part I wouldn't, because I believe in the country and in discretion. I am capable of finding fault with very many things. I could break out my laundry list of complaints about Korean entertainment - and even T-ara - but I choose not to do so because I'm not interested in bringing people down. But maybe I was a little too excited when I wrote that, so another rehash:

Many English-speaking commentators on K-pop like that it is not (in short) as cynical as most of American entertainment, including American children's movies. Cultures are different, and that is reflected in the entertainment they produce - but unlike much of the world, Korea, like the US ^_^, is able to produce an entertainment product that is viable on an international level.

You don't really respond to the rest in what I feel is a genuine manner, you kind of just insult me, so let me just just say that the US entertainment industry is not involved in the T-ara situation. I bring it up to say that despite its success, there are various flaws in American entertainment I could talk about - again, something that is true of Korean entertainment. But as Korean entertainment is new to this level of international exposure (and for other reasons), its position is weaker, and the scandal undermines its ability to be seen as a viable source of entertainment in potential markets.

I didn't then point out the similarities because it would have had nothing to do with the point I was making.

As for the international awards, there's something that could be said about how the Oscars always have the same kinds of movies nominated and winning those awards, and anyway, you don't seem to be challenging anything I actually said when you talk about that.

As for the "Koreans and Asians" comment, perhaps you missed that little flap involving Kim Jaedong and others at an international venue and a bonehead in the background pulling at his eyes. Or maybe you don't read Youtube comments and about every third Kpop video having saying someone (ignorantly) saying it's some kind of rip-off of some American or European act. Maybe you haven't been exposed to many stories of intolerance, from every region of the world. That's the background to that comment.

I guess Hawaii's a pretty laid-back place, maybe I sounded to you like a reactionary bigot or something, but I hope there's at least a greater level of understanding between us now.

As for whatever else, I'll be discreet.

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Please air the Shut up Family with ham eunjung, don't be like SBS, since right now they receive a lot of hates from international and k-queen's. I know you don't want to be like them.

Eunjung Fighting.

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Wow where do I start. Am I flattered to be quoted multiple times or should I be upset that you not only butchered my points but then threw words in my mouth?

Perhaps saying you're stunned would suffice? :huh:

Your words, not mine. I'll have my opinion on the general public and you your's.

Please reread my posting and take notice to your usage of the word "delusional". Oh, and please consider to not ever suggest again to someone about "not" using the name calling after this statement of yours then. <_<

If people who dislike T-ara didn't believe the interview, that is their issue.

Sorry where in my post did I ever say I doubted her?

Soyeon was one of multiple parties involved.

If there was a fight among 2-3, do you take one person's word and make conclusions from that?

Don't answer that, I fear for your answer.

Then they should stop asking for answers they simply don't like at all, it'll save everybody the trouble, including themselves having to repeat it all over again from the beginning. <_<

Where did I ever imply that you did? That's a recap.

Yes, there's many people involved.

Prove to us all that there's physical abuse and/or other criminal incidents, including bullying amongst the T-ara members and other employees of Core Contents Media, then we're ready to believe you.

Everybody has their own opinion, remember? Oh, and it's not required for you to reply to this posting too.

Don't be offended by me calling you delusional. That was more to give you a hint to see things from my point.

Which I guess you're trying because you've made some opinions for me which I don't recall having.

Good effort, bad execution though.

I won't get into a pissing match between words because you and I definitely haven't watched the same interview.

And no I don't consider this bullying.

A member came at me sideways, called me an anti and picked apart my post and butchered any point I made. Don't think I'd let that slide.

It's not about offense, it's about pointing out how one would say one thing and yet ending up saying the exact opposite in the same post. And that was to help correct the misleading direction in your argument, and to hopefully point out that such debate strategies are seriously outdated.

You're welcome. ^_^

Funny, that's what I thought when silence forgot Soyeon's interview, in the first place. :rolleyes:

Perhaps we did see the same interview, and thus came up with different reactions and thoughts about it, when there was three or more translations to it, oh, actually, I think that's what exactly happened.

Ah, excellent. ^_^

Oh, well, be assured that when I quote a posting, I make sure my response goes with what part of the posting to better communicate and reduce any further "misunderstandings" that may occur during the course of the conversation. And rest assured as well, that I haven't come across any antis on this forum, yet. If I do, I'll let you know.

You use a lot of "quotes" and you sure use them "wrong."

Example of crazy things CCM has put the lid on? The Jiyeon/webcam thing, T-ara's initial criticisms by media for bad attitude, outfits and sporting a rival team's color.

Ok, not exactly crazy because they're old and no longer significant. Wait I think I just proved my point. Onto the next butchering...

Really? You mean I can't quote you and and myself in the same sentence? Strange. I'm pretty sure it's allowed, especially in this texting age of technology, including this forum.

Did Jiyeon admit that was her? Especially with all of these idol look-a-likes that keeps popping up every now and then? Didn't they apologized for that one at least, cause I seem to recall that they did, or I think Kim Kwang Soo did for them.

Plus, all of those are so definitely not hidden either. Nope, what is your point? Very strange to think quoting is actually butchering here, especially when your posting clearly demonstrates it in a similar way too and then.

So far the only person taking things out of context is you. Don't lose sleep on it though, we're not perfect.

I'm not the one suggesting that there's bullying amongst the T-ara members, based on the lack of needed proof that it did happen. How is that out of context? Yeah, I hope you sleep well too.

And here we reach the great slaughtering of my post. I never wanted Hwayoung to leave. I supported this girl from day one. Against people who didn't see the need for a new member. Against people saying she was a terrible rapper. Against people saying she was the downfall of the group. She's no longer in T-ara and it kills me. But if that's the route taken, I can do nothing about it. I've already voiced my view on the bullying situation multiple times. Not gonna bring that here as that wasn't the point of this topic nor any of my previous posts here. This thing about the new members came out of nowhere. While everyone was busy roasting them, doing them worse than they did Hwayoung, I'm one of few actually encouraging members to accept them.

You wouldn't know anything about supporting other fans though, would you? Seems like all you do is instigate things.

That's very reassuring to read. Thank you. ^_^

Of course I do, however, I will point out while you respect other people's opinions, I seriously doubt that especially after making this posting in another thread here, back then. Instigating or not?

But yes this was great. I love supporting T-ara only to find someone come from left field and totally spin everything wrong. Dead it right there. IDK what sort of point you're trying to make. If you want to continue, I am available by PM. I'm sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way. But as I stated, calling me an anti and then picking apart my post, you're stirring up something you shouldn't.

That's awesome that you support our girls. However, I think it better to ask questions to confirm first before accusing, let alone assuming, someone of spinning things wrong. Sure, if you would like to continue this via PM, I await your response. I apologize too, I did not ever call you an anti, in the first place. Your words, not mine. Again, quoting and following up with my response is just my way of avoiding any overlapping between postings and not intended as an insult.

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Are there many people on this forum who dislike Hwayoung at this point? I've seen a number of negative comments about her since the outbreak, but only from maybe five people or so. In any case, I hope you haven't been dealing with those criticisms too badly, it seems to be getting to you. If anything, that weekend of the 28th I tended towards believing that Hwayoung was being singled out for something. Not that she was being "bullied" - and I hate how the use of that word has escalated everything - but that there was some disagreement where it was 1 vs x. And there's no good in pointing any fingers at Hwayoung either. I think she's only as media-savvy as the others, at best, so I don't think she would know how to reach out to the reporters herself to make a statement, and I'm under the impression that her Twitter is still tied up in her CCM life. I figure her silence is similar to that of the others - I figure she's made at least a verbal agreement with Mr. Kim not to say anything more about the subject, and now that she's more or less back to being her parents' daughter, I'm pretty sure they don't want her going public about all this either. She worked pretty hard to get as good as she got, and she started from far from an ideal start (being tossed in like she was). I liked her. Third or fourth favorite, even before all this. She got a raw deal from the outset, and it's just another on the laundry list of wrongs hurled at those girls.

Same, I haven't encountered that many who gave negative comments about our dear Hwayoung here, however it is regrettable that so many are just giving up on her though as if there's no second chance, not even an ounce of consideration that she could still return to T-ara and make things more better. -_- Just because her contract was terminated and still on good terms with mostly everybody at Core Contents Media, including Kim Kwang Soo, who's still willing to reunite her with the rest of the members, doesn't mean it's game over. Well, I won't put it into that type of context, but rather giving and hoping that things will not get to the point where someone gets killed because of all of this. They've already stepped up to egg throwing. People who continue to bring up old and irrelevant past mistakes and build them as if it was such a huge conspiracy against them, they would most likely resort to irrational actions with unfathomable consequences for both them and everyone else, if nobody doesn't offer them another perspective, or even assist them into considering a more plausible explanation. I even still remember Hyomin pleading everybody not to misunderstand them when they were just having fun on stage together and show a little bit of their close relationship together as a group. I'm sure we all know other idol groups have done the same before on stage. I took those tweets as a form of encouragement, not in the form of ostracizing her online cause of her injury/recovery. What would be the point anyways to bully her in the first place, considering how much success as a group together have garnered recently? None. I'm sure they won't jeopardize their life's career by encouraging Hwayoung to continue overcoming her injury. As for their silence, there's a good reason, and I am not surprised that not many people realized it yet. If people are able to easily misunderstand them, then silence is the best option, until that misunderstood way of thinking is finally able to understand, and then allow them to confirm it or not. Antis can have the most impatience ever when involved in a fandom.

Let me start by saying you don't seem to understand what I was saying - or, if you did, I don't understand why you would attribute it to anti thought processes. Let me reduce the language: I believe it is still Mr. Kim's standing order not to address the situation directly. I think it would be understandable if any of the girls were to defy those orders. But, all things considered, it would probably be best they did not, for the time being. As for tossing the anti-bomb around like that... Way to jump to conclusions on a head full of steam and with just the scantest of evidence. Funny, but I remember a certain segment of the population doing exactly that.

Yeah, it's the latter part there. Allow me to explain. Most antis have pretty much want him fired, broke, more or less dead, based on irrational thoughts without any proof of evidence to support such a mentality. Here's an example, when he announced about the possible member change up. It's understandable that a C.E.O., a boss, manager, or even a supervisor would remind their employees about the termination clause they all signed, if there's a discrepancy that contradicts their commitment prior to signing it, namely the job interview. I'm sure everybody is well aware of this, well, except for those who haven't yet even begun to work for a steady paycheck. Most reactions to his announcement was taken badly, because he went through the media too on it. Perhaps he wanted to share the wonderful world of working a job and to further humanize our girls through some unintentional mistakes that happened behind closed doors, or even level the disputed playing field to whoever our girls were up against. In any case, we won't know for sure, unless there's proof that specifically points out what the reasons are for these actions. This thought process of outright accusing him without any rock hard evidence to support these motivations that consequently lead to these actions, it thus becomes similar as an anti. I'm rather surprised if you assumed that I was branding you as one, when actually, I am not. Just pointing out the similarities between the antis' illogical call for justice in this manner, and the statement you made. We all know positions can change, whether it be for good or bad, and if it makes you feel any better, I'm not the sort of person who gives a final verdict on someone and executes them right on the spot like some street judge.





The more I go over your comments, the more smug you seem.
 Again, let me clarify: Either 1) the KBS producers of Shut up Family are like the producers of 5F, who lacked backbone and caved to the pressure from the advertisers, or 2) the Shut up Family producers are simply releasing the statement to test the waters, and then decide either way based on what the popular response is, while claiming they were always planning to do whatever they end up doing (either way making it seem like they were making some moral stance that just happened to fall in line with public sentiment).

Let me skip one and get back to the America stuff afterwards.

If perception is able to misunderstand a single word, like "determination", we would not be so different when it comes to reading someone's thoughts without the voice and facial and bodily expressions to go with it. Okay, now that is better understood than that previous posting you made that seemed rather vague, especially with the whole American and Korean mixing in it. Oh, and thank you for making that clear. :)

That weekend, between the Friday announcement and the Monday announcement may be counted as three days, but there were five days between the posts on Twitter and the Monday announcement. :huh: But I'm not really sure why you're getting on my case about that and the accident thing - are you defending Mr. Kim and the agency? Because that was a list of the mistakes he's made with regards to the current controversy. If you look (more) carefully, I brought up the accident to say that people were willing to make those speculations because Mr. Kim has the reputation of being someone who just might do something like that.

Not those three days. The three days "before" he made the announcement to make that big announcement. It all started with the press conference in Japan before the concert. Some people started pointing out our girls' demeanor since then. After that first announcement, the same rumors were getting looped around after that, and everybody was in waiting mode. Defend him? No. Being opening minded to other possibilities when there's no proof to send that man to jail, sure. If making mistakes indicates he's just as mortal as we are, than why bother someone whose already on a guilt trip of his own? If the company makes a mistake, they lose revenue and fans, simple as that. If they commit a crime, then they got to do the time and/or pay the fines and then earn their redemptions, plain and understood. Does the achievements and failures are what makes the person, or does the actions and reasons do? I did read it carefully, but that failed to realized that other companies "did" go through much worse than this before, and I was merely reaffirming that should anybody misinterpret that as being another means of saying that it was fabricated, that it clearly isn't.

So to take both of your questions about my America comments together... Like I said, if I were invited to discuss my issues with any of the American practices I don't like, I could say many things. But for the most part I wouldn't, because I believe in the country and in discretion. I am capable of finding fault with very many things. I could break out my laundry list of complaints about Korean entertainment - and even T-ara - but I choose not to do so because I'm not interested in bringing people down. But maybe I was a little too excited when I wrote that, so another rehash: Many English-speaking commentators on K-pop like that it is not (in short) as cynical as most of American entertainment, including American children's movies. Cultures are different, and that is reflected in the entertainment they produce - but unlike much of the world, Korea, like the US ^_^, is able to produce an entertainment product that is viable on an international level. You don't really respond to the rest in what I feel is a genuine manner, you kind of just insult me, so let me just just say that the US entertainment industry is not involved in the T-ara situation. I bring it up to say that despite its success, there are various flaws in American entertainment I could talk about - again, something that is true of Korean entertainment. But as Korean entertainment is new to this level of international exposure (and for other reasons), its position is weaker, and the scandal undermines its ability to be seen as a viable source of entertainment in potential markets. I didn't then point out the similarities because it would have had nothing to do with the point I was making. As for the international awards, there's something that could be said about how the Oscars always have the same kinds of movies nominated and winning those awards, and anyway, you don't seem to be challenging anything I actually said when you talk about that. As for the "Koreans and Asians" comment, perhaps you missed that little flap involving Kim Jaedong and others at an international venue and a bonehead in the background pulling at his eyes. Or maybe you don't read Youtube comments and about every third Kpop video having saying someone (ignorantly) saying it's some kind of rip-off of some American or European act. Maybe you haven't been exposed to many stories of intolerance, from every region of the world. That's the background to that comment.

I don't doubt that you could find fault, but at least you can understand the positive side to some acceptable degree, especially to those who really still believe in the U.S. and South Korea, and the rest of the world. True, cultures are unique with their own history and development, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the cultures themselves are unable to still develop further and be more understanding of each other, rather than waging wars, agreed? It is understood that should a war occur, we hope that the lives lost bear the reminder of the failure to discover that understanding is paid at too high of a cost, if not pricelessness of what could've been a peaceful transition to a better change. It is my experience that it is very easy to find faults, than it is to find solutions to the insurmountable challenges that take place daily in our lives. That is good that Hollywood is not involved with our girls in this debacle of a misunderstanding. Well, thankfully to the international fans and their support of T-ara, it demonstrates even more so just how many more people are involved with K-Pop. As 2NE1 recently disclosed that their international fan base is way beyond more than their home country's fan numbers, it provides that T-ara is not alone as well, including the most notable idols in the genre too. As for the similarities between the the U.S. and South Korea, it would've offered the point that not everything is about faults, which would've support your discretion and candor of respect to those patriots. :lol: You would be surprised how different each movie winner is when you watch the special features, and the history of that awards show. Read again then, if you missed it, but it's probably best that it be so missed in this case. On a technicality, K-Pop was actually new back in 1996, which is how I became a fan of the genre. It's only new because of the massive recognition and achievements it has been getting through the internet and social media networks recently. I watched and read many things that happened, both good and bad since then. From idol fist fighting and gang related activities and crime, to rape and murder and yes, suicides, to Tupac's mother to BoA to the sudden change of the Wonder Girls members along with the U.S. reactions to it, to now. And I can tell you right now, this T-ara issue is not that severe compared to all of that, and there's still time and hope of them yet, and this time, the fans can make that difference happen than ever before. It is true we're in the mists of a fandom civil war currently, and the only ways to ensure the fandom's existence is for our Hwayoung to reunite with our T-ara, and comeback as a 9 member group together. ^_^





I guess Hawaii's a pretty laid-back place, maybe I sounded to you like a reactionary bigot or something, but I hope there's at least a greater level of understanding between us now. As for whatever else, I'll be discreet.

There is, and I hope we don't forget this established understanding. ^_^

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What part of "Dead it right there." and "If you want to continue, I am available by PM." did you not understand.

Do you or do you not realize that you still continue to insult me, misinterpret my posts, and pretty much lie through out your post. Normally I don't mind having some back and forth with members who share opposing views but you come off as a troll and disrespectful where uncalled for AND do so to other members.

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