[13.03.27] T-ara's Eunjung-Hyomin-Jiyeon-Areum to form a sub-unit and create national trend

[dis_crazy_girl]

This is my opinion and nobody will care but...I THINK THIS... Is dumb. I Believe they should just leave T-ara and stop making Sub-Units like the other groups -__- But is they do this... It better be good. I Miss them all and EVERYONE Needs to be shown in may by then too... lol (:

[J.wishes]

Don't get me wrong, I like Areum but I'm more a fan of the trio and I would've liked it more if it was just the trio but I will support T-ara no matter what. Hwaiting

[tina2310]

sub-unit? why don't have soyeon? i'm looking forward to this sub-unit but i also want to know what happend with 3 others?

[Scatter_88mil]

...

Tbh, Eunjung, Hyomin, and Areum would make much more since (since Jiyeon is arguably the most popular member) or even Areum and Soyeon.

However, Soyeon and Jiyeon both seem to have the biggest scandals attached to their name (followed by Eunjung) so maybe he's hoping that he can remove some of the scandal attached by utilizing their popularity? I don't know... It's all just odd to me.

Actually....Hyomin's own scandal is just as big as Jiyeon and Soyeon's one, if not even worse. Having the past of an iljin is about the worst thing you can have for a background as an idol. I'd even argue it overshadows Soyeon and Eunjung's one by far in nature.

[@Eunjung4eva]

Actually....Hyomin's own scandal is just as big as Jiyeon and Soyeon's one, if not even worse. Having the past of an iljin is about the worst thing you can have for a background as an idol. I'd even argue it overshadows Soyeon and Eunjung's one by far in nature.

As far as I know, Hyomin's scandal was about joining a certain group that involves themselves in drinking & $ex.. The only thing they showed as a proof was her email Id. About Soyeon, well that was a rumor. Can be true n may be just a rumor as well. Btw, what scandal of Jungiee are you referring to?? Feeding Ricecake or FF scandal, or both?? Are those even a scandal??

[Scatter_88mil]

As far as I know, Hyomin's scandal was about joining a certain group that involves themselves in drinking & $ex.. The only thing they showed as a proof was her email Id. About Soyeon, well that was a rumor. Can be true n may be just a rumor as well. Btw, what scandal of Jungiee are you referring to?? Feeding Ricecake or FF scandal, or both?? Are those even a scandal??

It wasn't just any group though - it's a group of iljins, in simply put, at Korea, your typical average school's gang members who operate much like any gang with the exception that they're minors.

First of all, it wasn't actual $ex being engaged - it was $exual act or intimidation of it. And aside from that, this particular group (and possibly many other similar ones all around Korea) even sold their own bodies to older men for simply a few pack of cigarettes or some 'cash prize', whatever the latter may be, as well as exotic dance competitions and 'kiss and gr0pe' sessions with one another.

From my personal experience with iljins when I was in Korea though, that sort of behavior is something far beyond what even I've seen or/and heard even among the more crazier iljins at the schools I attended there during 2007 to the end of 2009 before deciding to finish my HS education in New Zealand. For certain however, I'm firmly positive the sort of stuff Hyomin did is reserved for the extreme side of delinquents in school.

Now for the proof that was shown regarding Hyomin - from what I've seen, it wasn't just her email ID.

Her real name - Park Sunyoung (note; Hyomin is merely a stage name) - was also revealed in the list of names that were part of this group of iljins along with what can be seen as a photo of her during her teenhood (though this one may be fazy since it doesnt' show her face 100% clearly but then again, for a online group of iljins, I think it's safe to say most aren't stupid to think of revealing clear-cut resolution photos of themselves) - and the fact that her Hanmail e-mail ID is the exact same as her Twitter ID, not to mention generally speaking, a lot of people tend to have the same IDs (or more specifically, letters and numbers) for their social networking stuff whether it be email, Twitter, Kakaotalk etc. as it makes log-ins and giving your ID to friends to add you a much more simpler and efficient process as opposed to having entirely different IDs for each and every social networking site/app.

I won't go down to say Eunjung's incident can be fully considered an actual scandal, but depending on how it's interpreted, it can be seen as one for some, for others, not. For Soyeon, regardless if it's a rumor, it was still enough to crash her image downwards and can be seen as a scandal in the eyes of some and the opposite for others like Eunjung's, albeit in a less clear-cut manner since no clear-cut evidence exists other than an anonymous account. If I had to take it at a very neutral viewpoint (note - I'm sure you'll know that Soyeon is my favorite member after Boram), the account itself can't be really disregarded either.

For one thing, if it was a malicious attempt to deliberately tarnish T-ara's image, it would have made much more sense if the anonymous person targeted Hyomin, Jiyeon or Eunjung since they're the more popular (and more hated) members rather than someone who's one of the underdogs (or dare say, 'nugus') of the group, whose number of antis combined probably don't even come close to the amount of antis of either of the three members I mentioned above.

Considering it was enough to tear Soyeon's individual image however, I personally would consider it a scandal in some degree.

Conclusively, whether if Hyomin actually changed for the better or not is entirely up to anyone's mind (for sure, I'd imagine Hyomin's fans would have been utterly devastated upon finding out about her awful past - even I was extremely shocked myself initially). Personally, I think she only changed somewhat, and would not be someone I would want to get along with on a daily or even weekly basis. For Eunjung and Soyeon, their cases could do with a bit more in-depth investigation if possible but I certainly wouldn't let them off the hook so easily either. If there's something nasty linked around, it's always better to look into it and deal with it ASAP than leave it lying around regardless of what the result will be.

Okay now I see a rambled on a bit too long XD (caught this while taking a break from writing a fanfic lol). If there's anything more to ask or discuss about this, feel free to do so

[@Eunjung4eva]

I won't go down to say Eunjung's incident can be fully considered an actual scandal, but depending on how it's interpreted, it can be seen as one for some, for others, not. For Soyeon, regardless if it's a rumor, it was still enough to crash her image downwards and can be seen as a scandal in the eyes of some and the opposite for others like Eunjung's, albeit in a less clear-cut manner since no clear-cut evidence exists other than an anonymous account. If I had to take it at a very neutral viewpoint (note - I'm sure you'll know that Soyeon is my favorite member after Boram), the account itself can't be really disregarded either.

I got confused here. I know which scandal/rumor you are referring for Soyeon but didnt get any idea about Jungiee?? Can u please be more clear about it??

Considering it was enough to tear Soyeon's individual image however, I personally would consider it a scandal in some degree.

Well, since it was more a rumor and things arent clear till date, I just cant blame Soyeon for it but she definitely has a stain on her image now.

For Eunjung and Soyeon, their cases could do with a bit more in-depth investigation if possible but I certainly wouldn't let them off the hook so easily either. If there's something nasty linked around, it's always better to look into it and deal with it ASAP than leave it lying around regardless of what the result will be.

Hella. I agree with you. Regardless of the outcome, I, too, my greater extent would like to go into its depth as well.

Okay now I see a rambled on a bit too long XD (caught this while taking a break from writing a fanfic lol). If there's anything more to ask or discuss about this, feel free to do so

Yeah, So kind of you Thank you. Well, I wanna know about the Jungiee's scandal you are referring to. I believe we are talking about different scandal. In addition to that, I was curious about the fact you gave on T-ara's last news[13.03.13] T-ara perform in front of 100,000+ fans, Japanese promotional tour met with great success". I mean what does it have to do with T-ara's achievement with Kara or GG??

[jknlet]

the truth is Eunjung hasn´t been involved in an scandall about her own person, i mean about her attitude. Five fingers is the scandal? the scandal is how they kidked her out and why.

and the only time Eunjung behaviour has been judged was during the T-ARA bulling scandal, that was not proven.

About Hyomin this is the first time i get to know the full story of the scandall and i still think is not true, is so easy tu put her name there and her email if it´s public on twitter.

[@Eunjung4eva]

^

^

Well I, too, think Jungiee wasnt involved in any scandal except that Japanese game and FF sudden contract termination scandal which I dont even consider a scandal in itself. If anything, than it should be the tweet made by her to Hwayoung which was definitely blown out of proportion. Yeah, she was partly wrong more or less but "level of determination" was blown out of context. I am nt sure among these three which one is Scatter actually referring to..Well about, Hyomin's ID I have to agree with Scatter. Username/Nickname can be fake or be overlapped but not the ID itself. I believe Hanmail is Korean version of Yahoo or Hotmail or any mail. As far as I know, two people cant have same ID at all.. So, I cant argue there but definitely as a Queen's I would love to think of other possible outcomes like her friends using it without her knowledge or it being hacked..

[Emperor Ryu]

It wasn't just any group though - it's a group of iljins, in simply put, at Korea, your typical average school's gang members who operate much like any gang with the exception that they're minors.

Almost every gang throughout the world involves minors in one way or the other, whether they be children of their own family to someone's kid(s) via money. So, there's really no difference other than the name of the gang.

First of all, it wasn't actual $ex being engaged - it was $exual act or intimidation of it. And aside from that, this particular group (and possibly many other similar ones all around Korea) even sold their own bodies to older men for simply a few pack of cigarettes or some 'cash prize', whatever the latter may be, as well as exotic dance competitions and 'kiss and gr0pe' sessions with one another.

They are so definitely not the only gang to resort to such blackmailing tactics. Why are we even talking about Hyomin's past, when she's not even involved with them currently? Is this some sort of stigma against her, or something? Perhaps to drive her in that direction again? Maybe that's who these antis are, a gang?

For certain however, I'm firmly positive the sort of stuff Hyomin did is reserved for the extreme side of delinquents in school.

So there's a notion going around about the gang blackmailing Hyomin now?

Now for the proof that was shown regarding Hyomin - from what I've seen, it wasn't just her email ID.

Her real name - Park Sunyoung (note; Hyomin is merely a stage name) - was also revealed in the list of names that were part of this group of iljins along with what can be seen as a photo of her during her teenhood (though this one may be fazy since it doesnt' show her face 100% clearly but then again, for a online group of iljins, I think it's safe to say most aren't stupid to think of revealing clear-cut resolution photos of themselves) - and the fact that her Hanmail e-mail ID is the exact same as her Twitter ID, not to mention generally speaking, a lot of people tend to have the same IDs (or more specifically, letters and numbers) for their social networking stuff whether it be email, Twitter, Kakaotalk etc. as it makes log-ins and giving your ID to friends to add you a much more simpler and efficient process as opposed to having entirely different IDs for each and every social networking site/app.

Since when did Daum and Twitter companies give a person, in this case a celebrity, the exact same ID? Why is this even relevant? This doesn't make sense, especially when signing up an online Daum e-mail account that asks for a e-mail address, password, and name (e-mail ID), while Twitter asks for a user name (e-mail ID), e-mail address, and password? Couldn't it be plausible for someone to choose the exact same name? I recall an artist asking someone to change their online name, because she wanted to use her same one, and that person so happened to be first to use it on a website. And we can't rule out the possibility of hacking into someone's account either, let alone cover this photoshopping point of view all over again.

I won't go down to say Eunjung's incident can be fully considered an actual scandal, but depending on how it's interpreted, it can be seen as one for some, for others, not. For Soyeon, regardless if it's a rumor, it was still enough to crash her image downwards and can be seen as a scandal in the eyes of some and the opposite for others like Eunjung's, albeit in a less clear-cut manner since no clear-cut evidence exists other than an anonymous account. If I had to take it at a very neutral viewpoint, the account itself can't be really disregarded either.

Geez, is it that easy to forget apologies and acts of redemption? Do we have to resort of barbarism in order to appease one another? Is there that much need to see ghostly spirits this badly? Why are we having this discussion?

For one thing, if it was a malicious attempt to deliberately tarnish T-ara's image, it would have made much more sense if the anonymous person targeted Hyomin, Jiyeon or Eunjung since they're the more popular (and more hated) members rather than someone who's one of the underdogs (or dare say, 'nugus') of the group, whose number of antis combined probably don't even come close to the amount of antis of either of the three members I mentioned above.

The antis in general went after each member, regardless. To go after specific members won't make sense for their overall goal, which is to kick T-ara to the curb and be forgotten.

Conclusively, whether if Hyomin actually changed for the better or not is entirely up to anyone's mind (for sure, I'd imagine Hyomin's fans would have been utterly devastated upon finding out about her awful past - even I was extremely shocked myself initially). Personally, I think she only changed somewhat, and would not be someone I would want to get along with on a daily or even weekly basis. For Eunjung and Soyeon, their cases could do with a bit more in-depth investigation if possible but I certainly wouldn't let them off the hook so easily either. If there's something nasty linked around, it's always better to look into it and deal with it ASAP than leave it lying around regardless of what the result will be.

That's old news. When I first heard about it, it didn't shock me at all, given how our artists here in the U.S. didn't bother to hide their gang affiliations and past crimes, and their musical career was viewed on as a means to redeem him/herself in the eyes and ears of the public. In some cases it worked out, while others didn't get the chance to live for tomorrow, as others still struggle with it. In Hyomin's case, it's pretty safe to say, she's endeavoring to live a better life without hurting others while she's still alive. I see no need to go into detail about their personal lives to locate their past transgressions, because it'll only serve as a means to prolong and halt any and all positive accomplishments they have done thus far to redeem themselves. Plus, it has nothing to do with us period. That's their privacy, their lives, not ours. If they choose to admit to past mistakes, they are doing so because they want to correct them very much, and asking for others for help and guidance, and hopefully become a better person when it becomes finally resolved.

Some antis, if not most, will always try to look for bad things in other people, simply because they themselves are hiding their own evils. In other words, give attention to someone else, other than themselves. I do find the irony in antis committing crimes, some are misdemeanor types, while trying to point out crimes in others, while failing to realize that by trying to correct someone else's problems does not solve their own. Strangely funny.

[Renar]

Well Ryu This did start from the topic of not putting certain members into a subunit because of their past mistakes it might be a bad idea from a financial point of view as they have quite a big group of antis. And not just antis or us, Stars, I myself (don't know about you) and I'm sure many of us here did stupid/retarded/xxxxed up xxxx when we where in HS etc. but you have to understand the Korean public love to point fingers and be Hypocrites 24/7, I'm not kidding. SK socially is very different from the world we live in mate, to us at some point it might even look messed up. And that's why scandals are seen very differently in SK especially when it involves idols. While the general public might let go of it over time, and we the fans will mostly forgive them, (if not immediately then after a while) there are always those antis who like to dig these things out of the closet every now and then when the idols are vulnerable and then hammer away. And let's face it even though CCM said that the subunit isn't happening, it wouldn't exactly have been out of line to considerate folly because these things would have resurfaced.

SK still resents T-ara and we the fans can't say much to change their minds sadly.

[Scatter_88mil]

@Emperor Ryu, this is the final straw.

Time and time again, you've shown to the entire fandom here that you've been absolutely disrespectful to others and quite frankly, even a number of regulars here (at least the ones I talked to anyway) have shown strong disdain for your fanatic and blind defense of the group and even their incompetent agency CCM, making up all sorts of rubbish excuses for them and blaming everything on people who aren't fans of the group.

To my awareness, you've been constantly reported on by members here that have more than enough complaints to warrant for a heavy punishment for your behavior of shoving down your words down people's throats and making practically every attempt of a neutral discussion impossible for other people here.

I've had my patience and have ignored you the best as I could but now, I've had enough of this.

1. I don't care if there's other gangs around that are of similar nature. The point is, Hyomin was involved in it and should't be seen as ANY exception to others.

2. I don't care if she's involved with them currently or not. The point is, it's a big black stain on her and should be open to discussion, while also serving as a beacon to prevent blindly fanaticism - something a lot of fandoms from Sones, ELF, Cassies, VIPs etc. have gone down to and are notorious for. Do you even have ANY idea how dangerous these iljins are? Considering you probably never even experienced bullying yourself from that kind of particular people or witnessed it in Korean schools, your opinion on it entirely is unwarranted and invalid.

3. I've clearly mentioned that such groups are among the types of most extreme delinquents but nowhere did I say Hyomin's group did blackmailing.

4. As a former anti myself (of SNSD, during mid-late 2010 all the way up to at some point last year), you clearly have zero idea how antis in general even work. What, a 'gang'? Where do you get your idiotic rhetoric of saying antis are a 'gang'? The only major 'gangs' of antis that is actually organized I can come up with is STAND which is more or less defunct and several fancafes which are more or less a minority. Antis aren't a bunched up group with their own hierarchy like fandoms.

If anything, they're a disorganized bunch that are mostly individuals or every small groups of what, three to five people? And even then, they're a tiny lot compared to the majority of K-netizens who simply dislike T-ara as a whole. From your deluded logic, I could be considered anti-Obama simply because I disagree with his policies.

5.

Since when did Daum and Twitter companies give a person, in this case a celebrity, the exact same ID? Why is this even relevant? This doesn't make sense, especially when signing up an online Daum e-mail account that asks for a e-mail address, password, and name (e-mail ID), while Twitter asks for a user name (e-mail ID), e-mail address, and password? Couldn't it be plausible for someone to choose the exact same name? I recall an artist asking someone to change their online name, because she wanted to use her same one, and that person so happened to be first to use it on a website. And we can't rule out the possibility of hacking into someone's account either, let alone cover this photoshopping point of view all over again.

Maybe I should have rephrased it better - in general, most people with an email address or ID of some social network, tend to have the same letters and numbers so it makes remembering things a much more simpler process. It's simple logic, much like how some people have the same names for logging in various fandoms.

6. T-ara as far as I recall, none of their actions 100% showed they were absolutely apologetic or sincere. It would have been more reliable and trustworthy if the group showed their own faces on camera TOGETHER and apologized as one rather than having just one letter that is more or less very, very vague with signatures or refusing to talk in detail about the situation at the time. Block B themselves did the exact opposite by apologizing as one and in front of the camera, Zico even shaving his hair - and they certainly do not have the same amount of antis T-ara had despite their awfully controversial comments about Thailand's floodings.

7. Went after every member? The group itself was overall went after, but Eunjung, Hyomin and Jiyeon got the MOST flak - hence it would have made much more sense to target either of those three specifically than someone who's not so popular. As far as I recall, Qri wasn't even exclusively targeted herself while Areum's one got very little attention in comparison, hence makes your accusation that 'every member' was attacked by having their personal stuff thrown online invalid.

8. I don't see how you're trying to make a comparison with the United States' celebrities. It's illogical and plain stupid - Korea is not the same country as the US is and it's idiotic alone to think it should be handled the same way. The US is not the world.

Additionally, these are idols. Not artists. Korea's society is nowhere near the same as the US is and it shows your lack of understanding of the former's society and culture, judging it purely from where you grew up. Idols are seen as role models to teenagers - and also a escape of reality from the hell Korean teens have to see and listen every single damn day - from bullying, suicides, gross amount of pressure on their grades and the list goes on. There is a very valid reason why agencies put a strong block on their idols' past and even alumni and only vague mentions of it are said in variety shows for the most part.

Again, your understanding of how antis even work or think is limited and invalid. You certainly were not one yourself either. In the case of T-ara's antis, I can safely say most of these are teenagers or young adults who had seen friends or relatives that are victims of bullying or were victims themselves - and to see something that's a part of their escape from reality being the exact thing they have/had to endure on a daily basis obviously triggers some nasty repercussions and disappointment. Not saying it's justified, but it's undoubtedly understandable and goes to show that the typical marketed image of idols being 'perfect angels and saints' is flawed and heavily risky all the while showing how extremely serious bullying is seen in the Korean public.

They don't do this completely out of joy or hatred either. And 'hating' on or pointing out a crime certainly is not a 'crime' either. Hell, then from that logic alone, I should say journalists and commenters that point out crimes of others shouldn't even deserve to give feedback and their opinions on such matters.

From your logic, I may as well say the every single Wehrmacht personnel was a diehard Nazi hellbent on genocide and destruction. Your generalizations alone, are idiotic and awfully biased completely and make your arguments completely invalid and seen by others as something akin to being a typical delusional K-pop fan.

Now that I think about it, I recall you judging SC2 in Soshified Sbox on saying Terran is underpowered against Protoss and Zerg when you haven't even played the game yourself at all, making your opinions baseless and invalid when talking about SC2 in detail. This is the problem with you - you're making absurd judgments and arguments when you're not exactly in a very valid position yourself to do so. At least keep it neutral if you're going to do it rather than make such blatantly biased opinions and shoving it down people's e-mouths.

Finally, you've also been reported several times for nitpicking small paragraphs and twisting words out of them, hence rendering discussions and arguments almost entirely difficult to go on with. You're undoubtedly a keyboard warrior - one that's looking for trouble at that too and trying to make the forums here some happy lala land where nothing negative can be talked about regardless of intent. That's borderline to being a fanatic.

As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't even doubt you probably think I'm an anti in disguise or 'influenced' by their attempts in slandering the group in every turn while trying to live in your own little world that T-ara are always going to be faultless perfect angels by smacking down on anything you see as considered negative.

I don't want to go as far as openly insulting people here but you've constantly shown to be continuously a troublemaker around here regardless if intentional or not and even the staff here have shown disdain towards your attitude. And I certainly will not hesitate to report you if you repeat your actions of nitpicking of paragraphs, twisting them apart with your own nonsense and rendering discussions practically impossible to go on peacefully.

It's absolutely rude, annoying and disrespectful. There is no other simpler way to describe it.

Have a good day.

[Scatter_88mil]

I got confused here. I know which scandal/rumor you are referring for Soyeon but didnt get any idea about Jungiee?? Can u please be more clear about it??

Well, since it was more a rumor and things arent clear till date, I just cant blame Soyeon for it but she definitely has a stain on her image now.

Hella. I agree with you. Regardless of the outcome, I, too, my greater extent would like to go into its depth as well.

Yeah, So kind of you Thank you. Well, I wanna know about the Jungiee's scandal you are referring to. I believe we are talking about different scandal. In addition to that, I was curious about the fact you gave on T-ara's last news[13.03.13] T-ara perform in front of 100,000+ fans, Japanese promotional tour met with great success". I mean what does it have to do with T-ara's achievement with Kara or GG??

I think it's a misuderstanding lol, probably because I worded it a bit too strongly hahaha. But yea, to answer your question regarding Eunjung, I was specifically referring to the rice-cake incident.

Soyeon's one definitely isn't very crystal clear and on the more unfortunate note, the only form of original evidence was deleted in Nate Pann (specifically of the guy who claimed it, as he said he works in the showbizz and showed pictures to prove it).

As for T-ara's previous news on the 100k+ fans and 'great success', I equated it to Kara and GG because the article made it sound like that T-ara was becoming a mega K-pop group at Japan in a similar level, which is far from true or even reality. K-pop, contrary to what many K-pop fans would claim, only caters to a niche audience overseas and that also includes Japan, even Kara and SNSD, whose fanbases in Japan alone are probably around 100k-150k and that's been done in an effort spanning several years involving whole seasons of constant promoting while T-ara on the other hand, only began to focus entirely on Japan in recent months.

And notice that CCM always came up with articles that overexaggerate T-ara time to time - such as claiming the group will give a free concert if 500k of the Jewelry albums were sold and that 'thousands' of fans greeted them at the airport (not sure if it was Vietnam or Malaysia, memory is foggy with this lol), which is illogical since that would clog up the airport itself severely.

Anyways, I hope this answers what you had to ask and my apologies for confusing you :/ (pardon my strong-worded moments, it's a trait I just can't get rid of hahaha).

[@Eunjung4eva]

@ Ryu Emperor & @ Scatter, well I dont have any idea about the conversation you two had in past and I dont want to go into it either but believe me, Both of you are the users I really admire here. I dont know about reports and how can a user Know that next user is being warned unless s/he is Admin/mod but a long as we are not using profanity or throwing personal insults, I will consider it a decent conversation or rather argument which I believe we are having now(except using idiot or stupid,etc which both of you are using). Also, we may be here about of our own reason like music, admiration( in case of scatter) or because of bias(in case of mine) but at the end of the day, our ultimate goal is to support T-ara being a Queen's and I think all of us are doing that now.

My POV: Scatter, you comment are more like a critics(full of logic, reasonable comment and rational statements) but sometime your choice of words are really harsh which I believe you are aware of yourself(pardon my strong-worded moments, it's a trait I just can't get rid of hahaha). But definitely, I wont even dare to think that you are hater in disguise, let alone type it to you.

My POV: Ryu Emporer, though we are all Queen's but still different comments and opinions are inevitable. We cant be on same page every time we talk. Though both comment wise and emotionally, I have always more or less same thoughts as your's but I would never go as far as arguing(its different arguing with you and Scatter is having right now) with fellow Queen's just because I have different opinions. If your comments are making other party uncomfortable than you should try to change you way because at the end of the day, we come to same forum to support our girls(I would Prefer word Princesses more, hehe) out of our own reason.

Peace Guys, Fellow Fans shouldnt have any personal agendas or ill-thoughts about each other....

....................................

@Scatter

I think it's a misuderstanding lol, probably because I worded it a bit too strongly hahaha. But yea, to answer your question regarding Eunjung, I was specifically referring to the rice-cake incident.

-Glad to hear that its not smth new which I wasnt aware of.Apparently, the meaning of scandal seems to be chaining. Well scandal basically refers to any disgraceful action or event but feeding rickcake to Hwayoung was part of the game so I woundnt count it as scandal. To be more precise, the fanboy inside me wont let me do so.

Soyeon's one definitely isn't very crystal clear and on the more unfortunate note, the only form of original evidence was deleted in Nate Pann (specifically of the guy who claimed it, as he said he works in the showbizz and showed pictures to prove it).

-Now this is something new to me. Didnt Know about the pictures.

As for T-ara's previous news on the 100k+ fans and 'great success', I equated it to Kara and GG because the article made it sound like that T-ara was becoming a mega K-pop group at Japan in a similar level, which is far from true or even reality. K-pop, contrary to what many K-pop fans would claim, only caters to a niche audience overseas and that also includes Japan, even Kara and SNSD, whose fanbases in Japan alone are probably around 100k-150k and that's been done in an effort spanning several years involving whole seasons of constant promoting while T-ara on the other hand, only began to focus entirely on Japan in recent months.

- Now, I see what you were referring there but still you cant compare one's achievement with other. Well, you posted the comment on the news" T-ara's sold 40705 copies on its first day". Regardless of GG or Kara's huge popularity in Japan, their achievement has nothing to do with T-ara's achievement. With that logic, I dare to say that GG & Kara are nugus if more top Japanese artists were to promote on same time as them. Basically, this group HKT48, sister group of AKB48(as said by user Kagami) managed to get 200K+ on its first day, I dont think kara would be able to do that for a whole week,let alone on first day. So, yeah.. achievement is achievement regardless of more or less popular group promoting with me..

And notice that CCM always came up with articles that overexaggerate T-ara time to time - such as claiming the group will give a free concert if 500k of the Jewelry albums were sold and that 'thousands' of fans greeted them at the airport (not sure if it was Vietnam or Malaysia, memory is foggy with this lol), which is illogical since that would clog up the airport itself severely.

-Exactly my thoughts. KKS has lost the power to think rationally and I dont like this guy at all. If it werent for him, T-ara wouldnt be hatred to this limit.

Edit: I forgot to thank you. Thanks for the reply and that info. It definitely made me happy(Well, Jungiee wasn't involved in any personal sandal)

[jknlet]

the truth is scandal or not, the most popular in T-ara are Eunjung, Hyomin and Jiyeon and if it were true there is a subunit it would be stupid not to count with them to create it.

[Scatter_88mil]

@4Eunjung4eva

It's my pleasure to be of assistance and of a decent discussion with you too

But yes, I suppose we can say we're completely clear and in agreement in regards to Eunjung. I won't go as far to put her on the same level of blame as opposed to say, Hyomin or Jiyeon, but so long as she keeps herself well-tidied of any serious risk, I think we're on the same page for the most part

For Soyeon, it would have been easy to miss as her own mini-scandal erupted during the midst of the group scandal itself (so it'd have been easily overlooked). But yea, Netizenbuzz did link the Nate Pann source, though unfortunately the whole thing was shut down so until someone decides to take particular interest and effort, it'll remain a mystery (hell, I plan on becoming a cop myself after military service so...maybe I should hahaha ) Having been a fan and anti myself in the past before, I do try to keep a more neutral balance between that of fans, antis and netizens, while refusing to pick sides so quickly and understand both three sides' reasons as best as possible (though it's certainly a different story when it comes to more serious criminals such as Open World Entertainment's CEO).

In my defense, I would say I was talking about their achievement in a more broader sense - to put it very specifically, T-ara's achievement can be considered an achievement on their own right, though in the broad sense i.e. over the whole music industry in Japan, it obviously wouldn't be considered as such. Again, I probably should have been much more clearer with how I worded it lol, but I hope this clears things up a bit. And of course, top Japanese singers and idols would be much more popular since...well, because it's in Japan, home to the world's second largest music industry lol. Undoubtedly, singers, idols and artists would be a lot more popular in their home country than abroad for the most part, especially when their home countries to be largely a homogeneous ethnicity.

But yes, to cut it short, T-ara's achievements are an achievement in their own right but in terms of achievement scale in the industry itself, it's not really much of an impact, if any. I think that's pretty much the most clear-cut way to describe their relevance in Japan, along with many other K-pop groups that try to make money off there.

Had CCM not overexaggerated T-ara's recent achievements, then I probably wouldn't have been as hard-worded myself (but even then, the legitimacy of CCM's statements are at best, rather untrustworthy so I'd very likely still have been skeptical at the least).

That's...pretty much all I have to say lol (pardon me if I've rambled on a bit)

And thank you too as well for being reasonable and understanding yourself and again, it's my pleasure to be of assistance and engaging in civilized discussions with you, as usual Diadem could really use more calmer discussions such as this on a more frequent basis hahaha.

the truth is scandal or not, the most popular in T-ara are Eunjung, Hyomin and Jiyeon and if it were true there is a subunit it would be stupid not to count with them to create it.

Technically speaking, I don't think it would hurt to have just one or even two of the three in a subunit with one of the more underrated members lol.

TaeTiSeo comes in mind, where Taeyeon and Tiffany are considered the more popular members whereas Seohyun is not as much, being overshadowed by not only those two but also by Jessica, Yoona and arguably, even Sunny.

[@Eunjung4eva]

@ Scatter..

And thank you too as well for being reasonable and understanding yourself and again, it's my pleasure to be of assistance and engaging in civilized discussions with you, as usual Diadem could really use more calmer discussions such as this on a more frequent basis hahaha.

You are embarrassing me now.The pleasure is mine and It was definitely one of my best conversation that I had in Diadem.

On the side note: Yoona is the most popular member of GG, as far as I believe.(lol, arguing with you till the very END). Safe and see ya' round.

[Solin]

I'm just happy to see these girls be active in Korea again...even if it will be only some of them.

However...CCM talk to much...this agency should learn to be more humble.

[Emperor Ryu]

Well Ryu This did start from the topic of not putting certain members into a subunit because of their past mistakes it might be a bad idea from a financial point of view as they have quite a big group of antis. And not just antis or us, Stars, I myself (don't know about you) and I'm sure many of us here did stupid/retarded/xxxxed up xxxx when we where in HS etc. but you have to understand the Korean public love to point fingers and be Hypocrites 24/7, I'm not kidding. SK socially is very different from the world we live in mate, to us at some point it might even look messed up. And that's why scandals are seen very differently in SK especially when it involves idols. While the general public might let go of it over time, and we the fans will mostly forgive them, (if not immediately then after a while) there are always those antis who like to dig these things out of the closet every now and then when the idols are vulnerable and then hammer away. And let's face it even though CCM said that the subunit isn't happening, it wouldn't exactly have been out of line to considerate folly because these things would have resurfaced.
SK still resents T-ara and we the fans can't say much to change their minds sadly.

But here's the thing though, if Core Contents Media didn't issue anything official about a sub-unit, why should there be any need to disagree with it? Sort of a waste, won't you agree? Yes, there are still some antis, but there are also still some who support them over there. Despite their over-reactions and misjudgments into matters, why should we advocate the antis' point of views, in the first place, especially when realizing the utter futility in it? Won't it be more productive to support them, when in part of the antis goal is to convince the supporters to stop supporting T-ara and leave the fandom?

1. I don't care if there's other gangs around that are of similar nature. The point is, Hyomin was involved in it and should't be seen as ANY exception to others.

2. I don't care if she's involved with them currently or not. The point is, it's a big black stain on her and should be open to discussion, while also serving as a beacon to prevent blindly fanaticism - something a lot of fandoms from Sones, ELF, Cassies, VIPs etc. have gone down to and are notorious for. Do you even have ANY idea how dangerous these iljins are?

3. I've clearly mentioned that such groups are among the types of most extreme delinquents but nowhere did I say Hyomin's group did blackmailing.

4. What, a 'gang'? Where do you get your saying antis are a 'gang'? The only major 'gangs' of antis that is actually organized I can come up with is STAND which is more or less defunct and several fancafes which are more or less a minority. Antis aren't a bunched up group with their own hierarchy like fandoms. If anything, they're a disorganized bunch that are mostly individuals or every small groups of what, three to five people? And even then, they're a tiny lot compared to the majority of K-netizens who simply dislike T-ara as a whole.

5. Maybe I should have rephrased it better - in general, most people with an email address or ID of some social network, tend to have the same letters and numbers so it makes remembering things a much more simpler process. It's simple logic, much like how some people have the same names for logging in various fandoms.

6. T-ara as far as I recall, none of their actions 100% showed they were absolutely apologetic or sincere. It would have been more reliable and trustworthy if the group showed their own faces on camera TOGETHER and apologized as one rather than having just one letter that is more or less very, very vague with signatures or refusing to talk in detail about the situation at the time. Block B themselves did the exact opposite by apologizing as one and in front of the camera, Zico even shaving his hair - and they certainly do not have the same amount of antis T-ara had despite their awfully controversial comments about Thailand's floodings.

7. Went after every member? The group itself was overall went after, but Eunjung, Hyomin and Jiyeon got the MOST flak - hence it would have made much more sense to target either of those three specifically than someone who's not so popular. As far as I recall, Qri wasn't even exclusively targeted herself while Areum's one got very little attention in comparison.

8. I don't see how you're trying to make a comparison with the United States' celebrities. It's illogical and plain stupid - Korea is not the same country as the US is and it's idiotic alone to think it should be handled the same way. The US is not the world. Additionally, these are idols. Not artists. Korea's society is nowhere near the same as the US is and understanding of the former's society and culture. Idols are seen as role models to teenagers - and also a escape of reality from the hell Korean teens have to see and listen every single damn day - from bullying, suicides, gross amount of pressure on their grades and the list goes on. There is a very valid reason why agencies put a strong block on their idols' past and even alumni and only vague mentions of it are said in variety shows for the most part.

Yeah, I'm not going to bother with that ridiculous nonsense prior to this, but anyways, . . .

1. So, basically, Hyomin can't redeem herself then? Who ever said she couldn't? So a child, let alone a teenager has absolutely no chance to make things right in life? That doesn't make sense.

2. That assumption that every member in a fandom is a fanatic is invalid and dead wrong. Yes, there are those who do lots of things to support the girls, but that doesn't describe every fan though. And showing their bad sides is not going to change that, ever, not the entire history of music around the world. In time when the artists themselves are no longer able to perform at the peak level when they were younger, sure, the extremism will eventually die down, but to lie to them into abandoning like this, is wrong. Any person who has ever made a mistake is suppose to be encouraged to correct it, and become a better person. Not condemn severely beyond the fairness of responsibility. Any gang that crosses that line that murders someone, is no different than any other gang that does the same thing, if not way worse. Why these unnecessary scary tactics? Why make Hyomin the poster child of these, when the criminals themselves are suppose to be? Makes no sense. This is in her past, and it's pretty obvious that she's moved on to become a better person, otherwise, if she stuck to them, she won't have been a celebrity at all.

3. Good that the gang doesn't resort to such criminal activities.

4. They are young, right? They do criminal activities, correct? Henceforth, a gang. It's in the dictionary.

5. It still doesn't rule out unauthorized access into the accounts, and mutual circumstances though.

6. Their problem doesn't even come close to T-ara's, because the whole thing was mostly about false evidence and misleading conjecturing by impersonators. Asking T-ara to apologize for unconfirmed events? That doesn't make sense. Shaving their hair off for an internal conflict and not some international incident? Again, that's way out of line. Their sincere apology matched the severity of their own responsibilities in their ordeal. I don't think reliable and trustworthy is accurately described here, more like vindictive and spiteful.

7. Going after every member is going after the entire group. It didn't leave no one out of that. Eunjung, Hyomin, and Jiyeon had more projects to fulfill than the other members, that's why they got that much flak. Each member got hated on, right down to Dani, who didn't even officially debut with the group, and only managed to get in a single music video at the time. Therefore, there's no grounds to even say that Eunjung, Hyomin, and Jiyeon got it more, while saying at the same time the entire group was hated, on based on the antis ultimate goal. That's a contradiction already.

8. It's not illogical nor stupid to point out that South Korea did and still does pay attention to celebrities in the U.S., and that point of view to deny such is already idiotic. Also, there's no where in my posting that stated that the world is the U.S. So again, such irrational thinking is being demonstrated once again in your argument. Especially when there already artists in K-Pop who are born and raised in the U.S. As the "artist" label, I don't see an "idol" label any where on their music. Perhaps reading the definition for "artist" will better assist this utter confusion of hatred. Now, as for the culture and society, it is well known that societies and cultures do grow and change over time, and even learn from different ones periodically. Given how the internet is able to share such knowledge and experience, it doesn't negate one from another country to learn about the society and culture from another part of the world, who is connected online too. Do you honestly believe that bullying, suicides, and all those bad things happen only in South Korea? That would be very foolish to think so.

You certainly were not one yourself either. In the case of T-ara's antis, I can safely say most of these are teenagers or young adults who had seen friends or relatives that are victims of bullying or were victims themselves - and to see something that's a part of their escape from reality being the exact thing they have/had to endure on a daily basis obviously triggers some nasty repercussions and disappointment. Not saying it's justified, but it's undoubtedly understandable and goes to show that the typical marketed image of idols being 'perfect angels and saints' is flawed and heavily risky all the while showing how extremely serious bullying is seen in the Korean public. They don't do this completely out of joy or hatred either. And 'hating' on or pointing out a crime certainly is not a 'crime' either.

Okay, there's some flaws in this irrational reasoning here. Firstly, it's not a requirement to experience bad things, in order to know bad things. There's education to inform and lessons to teach, that won't result in using a firearm in a classroom, in order to better demonstrate the realities of using a device. Such line of thinking is actually a bad thing, because it's curbing against education, and making everybody to become more of a victim, when they should be more responsible and aware to avoid such pitfalls. Bullying and performing their jobs are 2 different things here. Contractually these employees are required and expected to uphold their employment agreement. Should the job requirements overstep its' boundaries, the employee has the right to refuse. In the bullying application, it is simply a means of harming and intimating, in order to feel empowered with no retaliation whatsoever, plain and simple. And again, supportive comments are just supportive comments. Committing a crime in order to find a crime, that's what I was saying. Do you understand?

Now that I think about it, I recall you judging SC2 in Soshified Sbox.

Why are you comparing me to someone else online?

As for the rest of the nonsense, I only have this to say, which accurately describes antis. Thus, I do know antis.

[marinhoramone]

Well....we've a wall of texts here....

I don't believe in these facts about Hyomin's past but, if these facts be true I believe any person can change your ideas in a time. Many people were bad people in a past, and currently are good people.

If the return will be on sub-unit or a complete group, I'll support them.

[@Eunjung4eva]

@ Ryu Emperor

Any person who has ever made a mistake is suppose to be encouraged to correct it, and become a better person. Not condemn severely beyond the fairness of responsibility

- Didnt I say, both comment wise and emotionally we have more or less same thought.. This line is so deep and meaningful.

Eunjung, Hyomin, and Jiyeon had more projects to fulfill than the other members, that's why they got that much flak.

- I agree here. During WGM & FF,Jungiee was the one who was most hatred. To be more precise, Jungiee was in the media because of her individual projects so obviously antis will get news to flak her where as other members were out of limelight so they didnt get flaked as much as her.

Bottomline: Ryu Emperor, Both of us have different opinion than Scatter but still we are fellow Queen's. As long as we use reasonable and rational arguments, it will be okay. Scatter thinks logically while we think emotionally but it doesnt mean that our comments dont have logic at all. Emperor, looking forward to next argument.

[HJ011298]

This is great.. Its nice actually.. I'll be looking forward to that 2nd gangnam style title.... But GOSH when on Earth is Dani gonna show up..??????????????

[Scatter_88mil]

@Emperor Ryu - clearly, you have no idea when to stop and seeing you're doing it again, I'm going to have to say that you obviously have crossed the line and I will be taking full consideration of reporting you to the staff.


1. Where did I say Hyomin can't redeem herself? Hm? Nowhere did I say she 'can't' redeem herself and I clearly implied she has the choice to. Whether if she did or not, is up to the individual to decide.

2. Nowhere did I say that everyone in the fandom is a fanatic or a blindly fool. Again, you're making a complete twist out of my words to suit your own lala world of perfectionism of 'Oh, T-ara STRONG and PERFECT!' chest-thumping. I am however, highly positive that a significant number of people here are very not aware of the members' own pasts and to set them a balanced view of the group rather than being overly biased and making themselves no better than being antis or netizens (which is why fanwars occur) and discussions regarding their negative aspects should be considered an open and free thing to do. You obviously have a problem with the latter.

Did I even condemn Hyomin as some sort of witch or something? No, but as far as I'm concerned, whichever is more direct, is more effective in my eyes and it should be in everyone's awareness - and let them know T-ara aren't some perfect saintly angels as CCM and its puppet media outlet Newsen makes them out to be. Criticism is due when its due and in Hyomin's case, she deserves it and it should be a free topic to discuss and engage without anyone interrupting it and thumping the whole discussion apart.


3. So beating up other students and stealing their money (which is something every iljin does - in fact, considered a core trait of being one), driving others to suicide, underage smoking and drinking as well as prostituting themselves to older men for 'fun' even though all of these are clearly against the law doesn't make them criminals? What sort of blasted logic is that? This is absolutely revolting and it is a clear insult, sign of disrespect and/or sheer ignorance to all the victims of iljins throughout all of Korea, and that's putting it nicely. In fact, as one who had a friend who was nearly murdered and put in hospital for 2 months, also requiring surgery thanks to such fiends (and the iljin himself getting only merely a week of suspension and cleaning up the school for a week after that), I also find your comment rather offensive on even a personal level.

Absolutely tasteless and appalling of you to say.


4. *Facepalm*. Last time I checked, insulting someone in the internet or making some rumor about them does not constitute as a crime in South Korea. If it is, you're basically saying freedom of speech shouldn't be allowed and everything should be pro-T-ara. These 'antis' don't even operate like a gang themselves - do they go around beating or murdering people when they see one of their own members are attacked? No. Do they go around trying to scam CCM or T-ara for money? No.

I don't care what the dictionary says - it's how a group operates and what it does, that makes them a gang. From your logic, I should be a member of a gang simply because me and a few of my friends took money away from an iljin's room in the dorms when we had ours stolen in the first place and the latter promised to pay it all back but failed to do so countless times (and mind you, this isn't even illegal in Korea either so don't even think about saying I'm a 'criminal').


5. There was no unauthorized access, or rather, the chances of it are minimal, especially when it's more likely someone from that particular iljin group decided to spill the beans instead which makes much more sense than some deluded crazy old hacker smashing through Hyomin's ID. Is that so hard to really consider? For someone as biased as you, probably yes.


6. Unconfirmed, yet it makes more logical sense to apologize on their own to calm the public down regardless if they're right or wrong. They clearly did not, and it is arguably one of the larger factors that led to the situation deteriorating even further. It's a hell lot more sensible than having one member write a letter that doesn't even explain everything while the rest just put their own signatures. Tell me, you think that would've even worked in the first place? I sure as hell don't take T-ara as a bunch of dummies who don't have bricks for brains and considering reputation is a strong part of Korean culture, it would have made much more sense that they did much better than one mere lousy letter.

That is pure PR incompetence too. The way how you give off such excuses to this group and saying they're absolutely unmistaken alone is flawed and shows how biased you are in regards to the situation as a whole. They clearly have their own mistakes - the most notable is doing absolutely nothing productive to calm the storm and airing out their dirty laundry over Twitter. Even if it wasn't intentional, they should have been much more careful with their words but they were not. Accident or not, I for one will not give them just a overlook it or give them a slap in the wrist for it.


7. Eunjung, Hyomin and Jiyeon were also the most popular of the group, hence it makes more sense people would dig up and throw more dirt at them. What part of that do you not understand? To even deny it, is outright ignorance. There is a specific difference between attacking the group and individually picking down on every member, no matter how similar the two concepts may look.

There are antis that went after specific members and others that aimed for the group as a whole. From your logic, I should say that every military unit going on the offense to take out a specific target is also interpreted the same way as just attacking whatever the heck is on that specific target.


8. No but you already clearly made an implication that Korea should follow how the US does in regards to scandals about celebrities, even though both countries' cultures and societies are immensely different. To make any comparisons alone between the two is illogical. You clearly have not lived in either the US mainland (seeing you live in Hawaii) or even South Korea so what you say are at best merely theories and not substantial at any point.

Okay, there's some flaws in this irrational reasoning here. Firstly, it's not a requirement to experience bad things, in order to know bad things. There's education to inform and lessons to teach, that won't result in using a firearm in a classroom, in order to better demonstrate the realities of using a device. Such line of thinking is actually a bad thing, because it's curbing against education, and making everybody to become more of a victim, when they should be more responsible and aware to avoid such pitfalls. Bullying and performing their jobs are 2 different things here. Contractually these employees are required and expected to uphold their employment agreement. Should the job requirements overstep its' boundaries, the employee has the right to refuse. In the bullying application, it is simply a means of harming and intimating, in order to feel empowered with no retaliation whatsoever, plain and simple. And again, supportive comments are just supportive comments. Committing a crime in order to find a crime, that's what I was saying. Do you understand?

No, but he/she who has the experience of such comes off as an equally, if not even more valuable to know bad things than from someone who never experienced it themselves.

Hell, from your logic, I should then rely on government propaganda, schools or whatever educational institution regarding the nature of war rather than talking with veterans or reading what they experienced first hand. Nothing beats first hand experience. Education for the most part, is largely theory but does not give the practical know-hows adequately - heck, these days high schools don't even prepare their students for university. In fact, I should probably have relied on school authorities regarding violence than the students themselves.

There's awareness based on what's learnt from the mouths of others, and awareness based on what's learnt from those that experienced such things first hand.

I frankly don't see how these antis and journalists are even 'committing a crime' either so it renders your argument virtually invalid anyway. If they're 'committing a crime' as you say, then you're basically saying their freedom of speech should be taken away even if no one was actually hurt from what they did. And quite frankly, it's not like T-ara and CCM showed major butthurtedness to it either, otherwise they would have all had their asses sued by now.


And finally, you can deny it all you want, yet in SSF, your ID there is the exact same along with your DoB, not to mention your residence (Hawaii) - not to mention in other Kpop girl group fan forums too. Are you going to say that they're all imposters too then? You clearly wrote up "Kpop fan since 1997" (and this is present in virtually every profile feed in other fan forums too) so that says quite a lot about you. You're clearly not capable of admitting any mistake a female idol does and even when they do, you sugarcoat it, make all sorts of excuses for them and point all the blame on people who aren't fans of them, all the while bunching up netizens and antis into one category, which alone, is absolute nonsense. Why? Because you're a K-pop stanner or even dare say, a Koreaboo, at least by definition. And to fit you in an existing category, you would belong into the typical 'Oppa/Unnie didn't mean it!' crowd which is just unsettling, especially for someone at your age.

Hey, maybe you oughta work in CCM's PR department then!

Some people I talked to often in SSF's Sbox clearly even asked you whether if you're the same person here, yet you refused to give a clear answer or outright ignore them. Is it that hard to say 'yes' or 'no'? Admit it mate, you're being two-faced yourself in this field and a lot of regulars I talked to there already see you as the same person.


As I have said again and again, much of what you say is pretty much invalid or simply just pure hypothetical - and you clearly do not have the experience in living both in a eastern and western society yourself to even have a neutral stance between both sides or make your claims very solid or irrefutable.

Since you've nitpicked my paragraphs and twisting nonsense out of them again - I'll be taking full consideration of reporting you for repeating such behavior. You obviously have problems and have shown utter intolerance to anything that isn't 'pro-T-ara' even at the slightest which is just borderline to being a biased fanatic, much like that infamous person at Tumblr known as soyeonfanboy - and personally, I don't think Diadem needs people like that going around annoying others and sounding off like a prick.

Eunjung4eva here, also suggested you should put your behavior down a bit, but no, you clearly ignored that too.

This is the final straw and I will end my argument here. People like you are just impossible and I'd even dare say, are the reason why keeping a civilized and neutral discussion here since last year have become awfully rare and even so, go dead rather quickly. If you don't like someone's opinion, then don't bother. If you feel it should be corrected, then do it mannerly and humanely, rather than nitpicking every paragraph and creating multiple arguments out of a larger one, which effectively renders them impossible to debate and makes you look like a troublemaker.

I rest my case. If you do your twisting and nitpicking again to make more arguments out of each paragraph, you'll be undoubtedly reported because it's rude, disruptive and disrespectful. End of story, end of argument, end of this completely. Nothing more. I've had enough of this.



@Eunjung4eva - I'd have to respectfully disagree.

Emperor is not someone even the more reasonable members here would want to debate with, if past discussions in 2012 have ever shown anything. I've lost my patience with him completely and quite frankly, he's gone way overboard. Again. Maybe you weren't around back then to see it happen, but nevertheless, I can guarantee you'll find quite a few people who I enjoyed having discussions with around here who share almost the same view I have towards him.

The fandom, in my personal observation, has been clearly divided thanks to that scandal last year despite all having their support to the group. Before it, there was a general sense of unity among people here - namely for T-ara to be given the long rest they deserved for so long or even outright leaving or firing a lawsuit at CCM while also showing a united outrage against CCM's idiocy, threats and disregards of well-being towards the group.

But that seems to be long gone now, or rather, is no longer something people wish the most for the group and has largely degenerated into a bitter and heavily bi-polarized fans vs netizens vs anti conflict, much like any other fandom known infamously for such things (ELFs, VIPs, Cassies, Sones etc). Just before the scandal, it was fans, netizens and even antis all ganged up against CCM.

A car can't go on smoothly without proper maintenance of its engines and wheels and a routine fuel-up - and T-ara is still in this situation and likely will until its final days regardless of what casualties will be taken (Eunjung, Soyeon and Jiyeon's leg injuries as well as Boram's hospitalization of acute gastritis and implied depression were definitely not enough). There seems to be no more sympathy regarding this nowadays, people just being more concerned with seeing T-ara in front of their screens more than how hard they're having it as a group and individuals.

The scandal has clearly wrapped up people for T-ara to just continue on going, even though it could have been used for the girls to get some down time they desperately needed and let the heated steam from the other side slowly whither away - and probably would be the more preferred alternative for fans, the general public and even antis i.e. maintaining a better and more neutral status quo instead of bi-polarizing the whole situation to the extremes among all three sides as it is now today. I can safely assume that if T-ara decided to stay in low profile with zero media attention after that scandal, things would have been much more positive and it would have made a subsequent comeback a much more bigger explosion.

Time is always the best factor in healing things like this.

The day the group leaves CCM, whether as individuals or together as a group, I think it could really be celebrated among people here
And I realized I rambled on again XD. My apologies lol.

Sidenote - btw, you're right Yoona is the most popular, though this is largely among the public in general haha. Taeyeon and Tiffany are the most popular members within the Sone community though outside of that, I would somewhat say the former's popularity does rival Yoona's in some aspects (additionally, Yoona' popularity seemed to have gone a bit stale over recent months)

[Yul_~]

i hope its not true..i feel kinda bad for the other members

[Emperor Ryu]

@ Ryu Emperor

Any person who has ever made a mistake is suppose to be encouraged to correct it, and become a better person. Not condemn severely beyond the fairness of responsibility

- Didnt I say, both comment wise and emotionally we have more or less same thought.. This line is so deep and meaningful.

Eunjung, Hyomin, and Jiyeon had more projects to fulfill than the other members, that's why they got that much flak.

- I agree here. During WGM & FF,Jungiee was the one who was most hatred. To be more precise, Jungiee was in the media because of her individual projects so obviously antis will get news to flak her where as other members were out of limelight so they didnt get flaked as much as her.

Bottomline: Ryu Emperor, Both of us have different opinion than Scatter but still we are fellow Queen's. As long as we use reasonable and rational arguments, it will be okay. Scatter thinks logically while we think emotionally but it doesnt mean that our comments dont have logic at all. Emperor, looking forward to next argument.

I agree with you 100%. And I too, look forward to your arguments as well.

1. Where did I say Hyomin can't redeem herself? Hm? Nowhere did I say she 'can't' redeem herself and I clearly implied she has the choice to. Whether if she did or not, is up to the individual to decide.

2. Nowhere did I say that everyone in the fandom is a fanatic or a blindly fool. Did I even condemn Hyomin as some sort of witch or something?

3. So beating up other students and stealing their money (which is something every iljin does - in fact, considered a core trait of being one), driving others to suicide, underage smoking and drinking as well as prostituting themselves to older men for 'fun' even though all of these are clearly against the law doesn't make them criminals?

4. Last time I checked, insulting someone in the internet or making some rumor about them does not constitute as a crime in South Korea.

5. There was no unauthorized access, or rather, the chances of it are minimal.

6. Unconfirmed, yet it makes more logical sense to apologize on their own to calm the public down regardless if they're right or wrong. They clearly did not, and it is arguably one of the larger factors that led to the situation deteriorating even further. It's a hell lot more sensible than having one member write a letter that doesn't even explain everything while the rest just put their own signatures. Tell me, you think that would've even worked in the first place? I sure as hell don't take T-ara as a bunch of dummies who don't have bricks for brains and considering reputation is a strong part of Korean culture, it would have made much more sense that they did much better than one mere lousy letter. That is pure PR incompetence too. They clearly have their own mistakes - the most notable is doing absolutely nothing productive to calm the storm and airing out their dirty laundry over Twitter. Even if it wasn't intentional, they should have been much more careful with their words but they were not. Accident or not, I for one will not give them just a overlook it or give them a slap in the wrist for it.

7. Eunjung, Hyomin and Jiyeon were also the most popular of the group, hence it makes more sense people would dig up and throw more dirt at them. There is a specific difference between attacking the group and individually picking down on every member, no matter how similar the two concepts may look.

8. No but you already clearly made an implication that Korea should follow how the US does in regards to scandals about celebrities, even though both countries' cultures and societies are immensely different. To make any comparisons alone between the two is illogical. You clearly have not lived in either the US mainland (seeing you live in Hawaii) or even South Korea so what you say are at best merely theories and not substantial at any point.

1. This is what you posted before, . . .

The point is, Hyomin was involved in it and should't be seen as ANY exception to others.

Next, . . .

2. This is what you posted earlier, . . .

The point is, it's a big black stain on her and should be open to discussion, while also serving as a beacon to prevent blindly fanaticism - something a lot of fandoms from Sones, ELF, Cassies, VIPs etc. have gone down to and are notorious for.

And, . . .

Actually....Hyomin's own scandal is just as big as Jiyeon and Soyeon's one, if not even worse. Having the past of an iljin is about the worst thing you can have for a background as an idol.

Moving along, . . .

3. You misinterpreted that, allow me to further explain, "The gang does not blackmail others.", that doesn't mean they don't commit other crimes. Your point of view is overacting unnecessarily. Simply asking for a clarification is the best way, which I originally did on this issue point.

4. Please read this, and note Republic of Korea Section. And it is well known for some South Koreans to use outside sites to escape the government's jurisdiction. Moving on now, . . .

5. Which is it? No unauthorized access, or there are chances it happened?

6. But they did apologize on their own accord in a joint letter, as while as Kim Kwang Soo, Soyeon's interview, and Hwayoung's tweets. To say that they did not, without any proof to even state that there was a lack of sincerity, is sheer paranoia. How can that be more sensible than their tearful cries, like Hyomin's and Eunjung's press conferences for their drama programs? Should they continue to cry for the rest of their lives? How far does this utterly useless resentment must go without any proof to justify it? They admitted to their own mistakes and took their responsibilities, like being out of view of the public's eye for quite some time, as well as halting previously scheduled projects and adjusting themselves for damage control and restoring public reconciliation. That is enough for the mistakes they made, which included a contractual termination with one of the members. That's pretty harsh already, and a few people want more than that? That's rather unbecoming and beyond rational and logical thinking. That's punishment that "doesn't fit" the crime.

7. If targeting specific members is what really happened, then the rest of the members shouldn't have not gotten any hate from antis whatsoever. So, your argument is false, since every member was targeted and got hated on regardless.

8. Allow me to point out your argument's serious evolutionary flaw and utter mixed up in what was originally stated. I started out with this, . . .

When I first heard about it, it didn't shock me at all, given how our artists here in the U.S. didn't bother to hide their gang affiliations and past crimes, and their musical career was viewed on as a means to redeem him/herself in the eyes and ears of the public. In some cases it worked out, while others didn't get the chance to live for tomorrow, as others still struggle with it.

And then your argument went off track with this, instead of sticking to justifying the need to continue to question the members' past, which so happens to be this issue point is all about to begin with, . . .

I don't see how you're trying to make a comparison with the United States' celebrities. It's illogical and plain stupid - Korea is not the same country as the US is and it's idiotic alone to think it should be handled the same way. The US is not the world.

Then I pointed out that they do watch and learn from others in the U.S., not follow and do the exact mistakes they did, as I stated, . . .

It's not illogical nor stupid to point out that South Korea did and still does pay attention to celebrities in the U.S., and that point of view to deny such is already idiotic. Also, there's no where in my posting that stated that the world is the U.S. So again, such irrational thinking is being demonstrated once again in your argument. Especially when there already artists in K-Pop who are born and raised in the U.S.

Regardless the difference, it doesn't negate "learning" and "understanding" from one another. That's the entire point my argument is making. All of the other things in your argument here are basically just a bunch of red herrings.

No, but he/she who has the experience of such comes off as an equally, if not even more valuable to know bad things than from someone who never experienced it themselves. Nothing beats first hand experience. Education for the most part, is largely theory but does not give the practical know-hows adequately - heck, these days high schools don't even prepare their students for university. There's awareness based on what's learnt from the mouths of others, and awareness based on what's learnt from those that experienced such things first hand.

So must break laws in order to know what's it like to be a criminal? One must fight in wars to know war, is that right? Why the overall generalization when we're talking about a specific application aspect of the issue here? Is it to avoid complying with someone else? I've already covered the rest earlier in this posting.

Are you going to say that they're all imposters too then?

What part of "Why are you comparing me to someone else online?" do you not understand? A better question is, why make personal attacks that has nothing to do with the topic at all?

As for the rest, it leaves one to ask, . . . "Do people truly see what they're truly doing to others?" Please think about that.