[SPAZZ] Enraged fan about changes in t-ara.

[Scatter_88mil]

I still don't believe T-ara has this "extreme" fans because kqueens give me the impression right now that they don't care. Give me proof then I'll believe you

Extreme fans (a.k.a sasaeng fans) of girl groups usually aren't usually reported by the media for the most part (and hell, the only one strong example I can remember is when one nutter grabbed Tae Yeon of SNSD in the middle of a performance), as far as I know. I do recall that So Yeon did mention that someone WAS stalking her at some point in 2010 or so - and likely, it was probably a fan since she never knew the person herself.

But do note that the number of fans of T-ara has increased substantially over the recent months, as due to the massive jump in popularity. One can even argue it expanded as early as the Roly Poly promotions. The number of members here is a teeny bit over 32 thousand - the number of K-Queens would be no doubt much larger of course. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess that there will be a few dozen to as many as 100 or so that will be 'extreme' fans around - and definitely, such a small number compared to the overall number of fans makes it quite difficult to know what they plan and do.

These extreme/sasaeng fans operate in the dark and I'll also note that it wasn't until the Park Yoochun-vs-crazy fan video footage incident when more attention really was paid to those kind of fans - both by the media and the public. You may want to check through seoulbeats.com and search for the articles regarding those type of fans if you need to know more.

[ZZuRRa]

I still don't believe T-ara has this "extreme" fans because kqueens give me the impression right now that they don't care. Give me proof then I'll believe you

Like scatter_88mil said,the only "extreme" fans that I remember is there's one creepy man who constantly bugging Soyeon on Twitter and she herself said that she won't hesitate to report the case to the police for sexually harassing her for more or less than a year.And,you know,sexual harassment is NOT a joke.There's another case too but it happened during her middle school so I won't discuss it here.Luckily it's just on Cyber.Who knows when someone suddenly inappropriately touch her like they did to one of SNSD's member (it didn't happen to Taeyeon only).

But,every idol has extreme fans and as an idol,they can't avoid something like that to happen.

[kenzo]

That's...extreme fans for harassing the girls, which means they don't care about the girls' well being..I'm talking about the extreme fans who are overly sensitive about what happens to their idols. Well if these fans do exist like you said, we'll see the headlines soon.

[Scatter_88mil]

That's...extreme fans for harassing the girls, which means they don't care about the girls' well being..I'm talking about the extreme fans who are overly sensitive about what happens to their idols. Well if these fans do exist like you said, we'll see the headlines soon.

I wouldn't quite count on the news to report something that would piss off KKS (or CJ Group for the matter), unless the extreme fans actually killed him (which of course, he won't have anything to say).

As said, these fans operate in the dark and only keep to themselves, making them outcasts even amongst the more devoted fans. If they did vandalized his car or something like that, CCM or KKS himself would obviously try to keep it under the rug - he obviously can't make himself look like the victim due to his recently epic decisions of stupidity - which has already done enough to make netizens point fingers at him (and I'm assuming you know how nutty and dangerous Korean netizens can be).

[HyoJung]

CCM = worst company ever.

T-ARA should really change labels

[Mongrolian]

There's a lot to talk about, and I'm not being graded, so I won't edit this down, so sorry if it jumps from point to point.

First, I have to say that having seen the members return, more or less, to business as usual, arouses a feeling of disappointment in me. Now, I don't know about their in-house dealings, the specifics of what's going on, so I won't go further than that about this whole thing. Maybe they decided to pull an S.E.S. and will just drop their contract when it runs out or whatever - though they did sign that acting agency deal... if they're savvy enough, that contract restricts any involvement of Mr. Kim, but whatever. That's as far as I want to say about those details.

Just real quick, censoring public statements is not exactly the same thing as an illegal restriction of free speech - and where the question of legality comes in, there are very few internationally accepted standards as to the freedom of speech. Even in America, movie stars will feign excitement about every film project they have, politicians will not buck the party line, and even most athletes will be muted when it comes to their "honest opinions" about in-house affairs, and for the most part this is considered a professional attitude. Also, in America, there is still the question of whether or not a company has the right to access its employees' social media accounts. For a Korean example, SNSD members don't even have Twitter accounts - is this a restriction of their free speech?

Next up, Mr. Kim knows his employees are young adults - not only inexperienced in their industries, but naive in the matters of labor relations. That latter especially, as the idols no doubt have little appreciation of contract law and workers' rights, and by design of their handlers and by nature of the industry, are largely kept from gaining a strong appreciation of such matters (imagine a recent high school graduate running television station and that is something like the idea). Furthermore, in Korea the employer, the boss, the authority is held in relatively higher esteem than in most other places in the world - lurking in the backs of the members' minds is the notion that rebelling against Mr. Kim amounts to rebelling against what makes Korean culture great ("you just don't go against the boss"). Not that he is what makes Korean culture great, but he is the boss, and in traditionally Confucian societies, authority and hierarchy matters that much more. After all, what exactly do you think T-ara's mothers and fathers are telling them about what they should be doing? Even if T-ara members put up a brave face in front of their parents, I doubt their parents know less about what's going on than the fans do.

Also along these lines, somewhere in there is a side-effect to the fact that the T-ara members are being over-worked - this not only reduces the actual time they have to think about their predicament and formulate and execute ideas as to what to do about it, it also reduces their energy and will to do so. It is an exceptional feat, but not out of the ordinary for an exhausted, under-slept and travel-weary idol to rouse herself and smile and converse in front of a camera, but it is quite a different thing for her to, of her own volition, concentrate on the bigger picture of her living standards, and, what's more, actually explore the legal or purely strategic options available to you - and after and on top of all that, actually plan and carry out any such course of action, all the while being undermined by a hostile controlling force that is probably better prepared. Said more briefly and more generally, its easier to push an exhausted body than an exhausted mind. These are simply some among Mr. Kim's advantages.

I agree that the fans should boycott T-ara products. I, for one, just won't buy their stuff anymore - after all, what is youtube but free entertainment? However, what that quoted writer doesn't seem to appreciate (and what Mr. Kim apparently does) is that the fan base is largely composed of people younger than T-ara members. And if, as above, I don't expect T-ara members to have a strong, much less commanding, grasp of business affairs, then it's tough to expect as much out of their fan base. Sure, anything's possible, and I'm often taken aback at how organized and committed Kpop fans are, but again, there are possibilities and then there are expectations - and then, of course, there's what actually happens, reality. One thing I remember from high school - no matter how charismatic and passionate the student council is, each and every one of them will eventually graduate and leave, and the school faculty will remain. The fans will move onto the next big thing, or will simply go and develop other interests, and eventually the members will disband and pursue their fortunes in whatever other areas. I mean, in spite of all the poor decisions and bad public image, Mr. Kim does still run his company (poorly or not). Perhaps he never really thought T-ara would last this long. If we're willing to believe he's all about the bottom line (money), then why do we think he'll care if the fans are badmouthing him? Someone even pointed out that victimizing T-ara tends to create a strong emotional bond of sympathy with T-ara - and if the fans (mistakenly) think all they can do to help or show their love for T-ara is buy their albums, that adds up to exactly what they say Mr. Kim is about, more money flowing into CCM. And I don't know how sales are divided between the domestic (Korean) front and the international front - keep in mind that this may be an "international" site, it's also "just" an English-speaking site. Do they talk like this in Thailand (a stalwart of international Kpop sales I understand), in China, Japan, Indonesia? I mean, Americans decry the low standards of living in sweatshops in developing nations and criticize US and foreign governments for allowing those conditions to continue, but will still buy products produced in those sweatshops because they are inexpensive - just to demonstrate that the Kpop fans are not the only example of this kind of problem. But step further back and note that music sales isn't the only source of income - T-ara shows up on a commercial for clothing, and the fans think "oh yay, I'll buy that now," thinking the money won't go to CCM, so it won't reward the poor treatment of Tara. Even that's not correct. The connections are not concrete, but if T-ara is part of a successful ad campaign, and as long as T-ara has a positive public image, then CCM can charge advertisers more for their endorsements - and more money flows into CCM.

And it's not just Mr. Kim - part of the reason T-ara accepts conditions as they are is that they are making a living this way. Maybe they don't realize it doesn't have to be like this; after all, so go the sayings, "everyone's boss is an idiot," and "every employee will complain about their job." Ultimately, as bad as things have gotten, even T-ara can make the connection - fans still buy albums/still are fans, the company makes money and we have our livelihood, thus, maybe things aren't so bad after all. And again, when they're so exhausted from doing what's being asked of them, it makes it that much harder for them to summon the will to do anything about it. After all, idols are always being complimented and admired for their ability to persevere in spite of their fatigue and the multiple demands on their energies - perhaps T-ara members have been misguided into believing that they must persevere through also this. After all, a game only works if everyone's playing along. But maybe, if the members saw that the fans were concerned enough to stop buying their products, if perhaps the members became convinced that their over-work is not simply the cost of their professional success, if the members could be convinced that staying at CCM was not ultimately in their best interests...

And speaking of fans, the sasaeng fans are loners and outcasts largely because the main line fans shun them - because they don't want to be associated with them, because the main line fans can't stomach the sasaeng mindset and behavior, and also because the mainstream fans just don't want to deal with them. And again, Korean culture is very conservative, not very given to a revolutionary mindset - and, like most people, they're not too open to the idea of outsiders meddling in what they consider "in-house" affairs. So perhaps a Korean fan, frustrated about T-ara's predicament, scans the internet, and sees the international community going on comparing the CEO to Hitler and contemplating acts of murder, or worse, implying that Korean fans want to or should visit personal harm on the CEO (and again, saying so from the "outside"). It seems to me that it would tend to push the Korean fan away from trying to undermine Mr. Kim ("That all sounds very extreme - certainly I'm not like that"). I mean, even I don't feeling like jumping into the conversation when I see some of the more extreme speculation that sometimes comes up when this topic is being discussed.

And let me just throw in a personal appeal to fans, please, please, don't put money into CCM - don't buy T-ara's albums, don't buy their songs online, don't buy their concert tickets. But you can't just do that - repeatedly say why you're doing this. Go online and keep saying it's because you want them out of CCM, out from under Mr. Kim's thumb, write it on those little signs you hold up during live performances, make fan-chants about this - keep it clean, it doesn't have to be alarming or negative, but say that you insist on a better standard of living for T-ara. Make a slogan - "No sales for suffering," or something in Korean. Keep going online and saying you're boycotting things because you want them to live better, leave no doubt that you're doing it to make their lives better. Understand that their sales will go down, understand that it'll look like their popularity is going down, understand that T-ara themselves might make a personal appeal to stop the boycott - T-ara might look sad in interviews and talk about how it's hurting them, and fans who disagree with the boycott will probably do so loudly and openly challenge your actions, but if you keep alive the message that you're doing all this to try to improve their standard of living, then maybe eventually, when their lives are better and their minds are clearer, T-ara will look back on all this and realize that their fans did something amazing, maybe even miraculous for them. Even if this T-ara is disbanded, they won't be out on the street. Hard work and talent will always be rewarded, but we can't continue to reward the way Mr. Kim treats Jeon Boram, Lee Qri, Park Soyeon, Ham Eunjung, Park Hyomin, Ryu Hwayoung and Park Jiyeon. Words will not change Mr. Kim's mind, actions will not change Mr. Kim's mind, not even money will change his mind - he will not change his policies because he sees no wrong in what he's doing. He believes in what he's doing. So don't make this about making Mr. Kim change his mind, make it about T-ara living a better life - and that will only happen when they are out of that company. Help T-ara realize that they have the freedom and the power to change their lives for the better. Help T-ara realize they don't have to accept their current conditions. Help T-ara realize that their careers, their professional success is not dependent on continuing to suffer at CCM. You, the fans already have the power to make a difference with every dollar you choose to spend or withhold, and with every word you utter - please, use both to send the message to T-ara that they have to pursue a better life for themselves.

[sleepystudent]

^Although you do make very good points, I don't think T-ara's fans are well organized to hold a boycott.

If it's just a few hundred that are boycotting their goods, they still have thousands who are buying. Unless the fandom get together and organize a boycott of T-ara goods (via CCM) then i don't this boycott idea would do anything, expect help you(self) save some money.

Besides, like many have said, i don't think KKS really give a rat's a** about international fans. There's not much international fans can do, unless every single one of us boycotts, as well as the ones living in South Korea.

If anything, I think the fans living in Korea and maybe in Japan have more power and say about the idols then any other fans.

And like you said, i think the majority of T-ara fans are those who are [much] younger than them, so ... not sure how that would go.

True, Asian; Koreans more so than others, have a strong Confucian value. But times are changing. It's already the 21th century. Even though we still see the values strongly embedded in their culture, i don't think (or believe) that over-working and obeying EVERY order of the boss is still the norm. I could be wrong. But there's something called Human Rights lol. To be honest, the contracts that idols sign and everything, even though i don't know the contents of such contracts, it really reminds me of slave contracts or the indentured servants contracts. You know the ones that brought the Asian and other nationalities overs during the late 1800s, early 1900s. Work for a few years to pay back the 'loan' that got you to America..

Anyway, I don't think i'm one of those people who are helping the boycotting, seeing as I've already brought their Jewelry Box album... xD

But if and when T-ara's fandom (really need to get our fan name already!) get together and organize to help the girls, i'm all for it. If every single one of us boycotts, i'll gladly cancel my orders and help as well. But as of now.. nothing is being done, it's all just talk and no action to actually put a plan together and onto a flown blown 'action'.

[kenzo]

I just noticed that uneven distribution of lines in title tracks started after Hwayoung is added and the leader changes~

[ZZuRRa]

^I don't think so.I I didn't knew T-ara prior to Cry Cry but T-ara never has a fair distribution lines from the moment they debuted until now.Adding Hwayoung just making thing worse (in a distribution lines,of course).

Oh and,the whole leader things doesn't affect their distribution lines since they have no power to decide who sing which lines.