Scatter_88mil

Do please tell me exactly where in my post is not being realistic, then we can start talking whether here or on PM. Just because I'm not praising them all the time like some members here doesn't automatically mean I'm an unsupportive grumpy nutter of the sort. It's nothing new or even remotely surprising though, and I prefer to be honest about my opinions as well.

I could probably say the same for Korea lol. In any scenario the two Koreas reunite (which may likely happen in the distant future) or the current rate of politics going the same for 10-20 years, I'm willing to bet $100 that the government will very likely collapse and probably be overthrown by a military coup.

I'm curious as to which side of the political spectrum the group has actually voted for, or even lean on for that matter. Korea is my native motherland after all, and since politics is so closely tied with history, it gets my attention quite a bit From military dictatorships to a democracy, and with a ton of infighting here and there, it makes great entertainment to see the ruling and opposition parties slam it out one another lol.

1) Yes, they're the sixth municipal elections. Aside from governors, it's also elections of various other figures in metropolitan councils and the like. . 2) The guy who resigned, as CaptFantasy mentioned, was ROK Prime Minister Jung Hongwon. The position of PM is still left open, though a man named Ahn Daehee (former Supreme Court judge and lawyer) was nominated before he withdrew from it due to raised concerns of alleged corruption related to earned a bit too much during his tenure as a lawyer - at least that's what the opposition party has claimed. President Park is still in position, and won't be going until four years (unless she's somehow impeached or resigns, though this is very unlikely). EDIT: for more info regarding the 2014 June municipal elections, refer to these links; http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2014/06/03/south-koreas-local-election-a-test-for-president/ http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/640699.html http://www.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/621088.html http://news.yahoo.com/ferry-tragedy-turns-local-korea-polls-referendum-040104551.html

Just to be helpful, if you have anything to ask about Korean politics, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about it (I follow K-politics closely here, probably more than anyone else in this entire site).

Man, it still kinda feels like yesterday when the three brothers were just little munchkins :/ Can't believe it's already been nearly 4 years then lol

@Uncle fan It is necessary to mention when discussion becomes of what is the main player of T-ara's image downfall. I don't disagree with you that the media has certain amount of influence, and there's plenty of examples of it playing a major role in breaking and making careers - I've mentioned myself that it is one of the two bigger players that effectively threw T-ara right at the trashcan for the sake of viewer ratings. At that time however, what the media did during that scandal was openly report what CCM had stated in its disastrous PR press conferences more than anything else, considering KKS himself basically had reporters from every newspaper imaginable right in front of his eyes. Had the latter avoided that (or at least had someone with more tact doing it), the media wouldn't have been extremely active at the time. It doesn't help that the company's conferences at the time, by feeding the media, pretty much engaged in an extremely dirty mud-slinging campaign against Hwayoung and using T-ara as a shield to avoid public scrutiny (or rather, dampen it) against the company itself. The media at the time was pretty much invited to play its part. Using Newsen as a 'pro-T-ara' propaganda outlet didn't help things one bit either, as it was used to bash other idol groups at the time of T-ara promoting SL. Later on in 2013, the CCM itself goes to restrict the press in what it's allowed to write in respect to T-ara, and winded up antagonizing one outlet up to the point it actually resorted to open threats. That being said, I rest my case on this.

@Uncle_fan - I strongly beg to differ there. It's called being realistic. Idol groups don't last forever, and this is an obvious fact that's been proven by history itself. There have been groups in the past in Korea whose fandoms were numerous times bigger and supportive than T-ara's and even SNSD's to a degree, but they disbanded and went their own ways. Some simply became a shadow of their former glory (i.e. Shinhwa, G.O.D and likely Buzz). 1) If CCM actually learnt how to do proper PR, then the media wouldn't have been going on a reporting spree and the catastrophe could actually have been better contained and had a smaller impact on T-ara's image. Blaming it all on the media is just plain ignorance and only breaking the tip of the iceberg. 2) Who's 'they'? You make it sound like the group endured it all out of their own sheer willpower without taking in the factor of management. In case you've forgotten or simply never knew, regardless if they wanted to give up or not, they were in absolutely no position to do anything out of their own choice. Kim Kwangsoo as early as 2011 had made it fairly clear that idols should never ever go up against their company regardless of reason, and is not afraid of making it extremely difficult for those who do so in a rather appalling manner - Nam Gyuri and Hwayoung are two major example. Bluntly put, CCM has a gun put up right behind their heads 24/7. Seriously, there are way too many fans who literally either deny, fail to acknowledge or remain ignorant of this, while putting all the blame on the media and Korea's online community. It's rather distasteful whitewashing, at best and at worst, makes them no better than the other side, if not even more so by making everything so black-and-white. T-ara doesn't have full power over what they want to decide in regards to their careers whether as a group or individual, as with many other idols. 3) Lee Hyori didn't grow bigger because she didn't 'give up'. She was already fairly well-known as early as her days in FinK.L. though today, is nowhere near as popular as she was back in her primal years. Just like many other older celebrities. 4) You're basically saying fans should be mindless drones that should accept and support everything the group does. If that's what you think fans should do, then it's no different to saying we should support CCM. 5) A fan is someone who stays with their celebrity because they simply like said celebrity in whatever way he/she interprets it to be. The definition of fan, is very debatable. As far as T-ara is concerned, there are fans who like them for their looks, fans who like them for their personalities, fans who like them for their music etc. It's all split, and the word 'fan' is what keeps them together in one spot as a community. Not a group that basically says 'T-ARA STRONG!!!!!!' all the time. 6) CCM obviously never really considered fans to be of much importance anyway. Back in 2012, there was quite a bit of worries/concerns that T-ara was being severely overworked, in poor health (in Boram's case, specifically) and the whole new member debate + KKS's public threats against the group. These concerns, were either flat-out ignored or met with a rather lackluster response, which pretty much says the company doesn't give a damn about our opinions so long as they can make a quick buck out of our wallets even if it means having to overwork the group to extremely unhealthy lengths (which they already have plenty of times). If their agency can't even respect fans even if its valid concerns, then that makes supporting the group a little bit difficult, at least for me anyway. 7) Whether you like it or not, the Hallyu Wave cannot sustain on being more reliant on K-pop. It doesn't help that the music industry in Korea is utterly corrupted to the core along with the filming industry, yet the K-government is trying to export it as some kind of brand of perfect lala-land lollipop. Secondly, contrary to what you claim, K-pop has been largely the same for the last several years. Ever since 2010 (if not 2009, arguably), the music industry's been badly over-saturated with cookie cutter idol groups that are basically knock-off versions of the more successful groups and has become extremely reliant on idol groups for revenue, and this shows absolutely no sign of slowing down anytime soon. If anything, at its current rate, K-pop has already shot itself in the foot in the long-term. There are no potential successors of the mega- groups like SNSD, 2NE1, Big Bang, DBSK etc. and the 'mid-tier' groups like After-School, SECRET, SISTAR etc. either don't have large enough fandoms, labels with abundant resources or staying power to replace them once they disband.

I advocate the fandoms should petition to the game developer and publisher companies in Korea to make specific T-ara skins in their RPG and FPS games, similar to Sudden Attack in 2012 :3 Just slap on some camo fatigues, combat boots, bulletproof vests, berets or field caps, sunglasses and utility belt or webbing, and it's all set >:-D

Either the author of the article is a huge, huge fan of the group, was paid a good sum of cash by CCM to write this up or it's a mix of both. It just reeks of it. As for people claiming T-ara won't be going away anytime soon - we'll see what happens after 3 years at the very least. Admittedly, I personally thought that the group wouldn't last beyond 2014/2015 but by the looks of it ,that does not appear to be the case (so long as they continue on as they are going now), but to think they'll be staying as a group in the long-term is extremely wishful thinking. From that logic, you could probably say the same for SNSD, but even they're not likely to stay as they are now in say, the next 6 years and plus. Even the 1st gen groups that had fandoms that outsized the ones of many popular groups today (like SISTAR) ultimately became history. If anyone's going to bring up Shinhwa, be noted that the group had times of extensive inactivity, especially when you count their conscription service. The whole 'going solo' trend has been going on for some time now, and T-ara's not an exception + it's more of an indicator that the members are exploring what career they want when they either decide to leave on their own accord (or against their will) or when T-ara disbands in its current lineup. They sure as hell won't be staying as the idols we've known since 2009. That's for sure,. Er, what? For some reason, a lot of people (and i-fans in general) seem to have this weird mythological belief that Korea's public and online community is to blame for the whole thing. Anyone with even a modicum of brains can easily tell that the Korean media and CCM are the ones that played the biggest role in T-ara's crash-and-burn incident, especially considering both used the group as a scapegoat (whether intentionally or unintentionally) to further their own agendas regarding that mess, despite the immense long-term consequences it would bring forth. The public and online community simply bought it, and are the product of as a result of piss-poor management within the press and the company that went on for the the rest of 2012 and 2013. They are a massively over-exaggerated mythical threat. While you can throw out the 'but other countries don't care!' card, but be reminded that still to this day and in the future, T-ara is in the end, a Korean group in a Korean company that is still more reliant on money from Korean fans than anywhere else, and their main source of popularity (or what's left of it) is in Korea, a tiny country with 50 million people that have extremely fast access to the internet anywhere they go. And no, T-ara won't be 'staying long' in the business. That's just wishful thinking. It's already dying, bro :3 IIRC, K-pop has been on a 'decline' in Japan since last year (even SM has admitted a decline in sales at the time), which isn't really good news since a massive portion of its overseas revenue happens to be from Japan, adding that it coincides with the fact that the number of visiting Japanese tourists has also declined significantly too, which is...not so great for the Hallyu Wave itself as well as the tourism industry . The K-govt and media aren't exactly the brightest crayons in the box, nor are really appearing to be particularly innovative in trying to solve the issue (the same could also be said of K-pop labels too). At best, it'll probably end up hitting niche audiences, similar to Japan's pop culture has though still heavily reliant on domestic sales. The only industry that's doing extremely well in the Hallyu Wave and faces zero danger of declining in the foreseeable future is the gaming industry (in spite of the ridiculous regulations slapped on it), backed up by that it makes way more revenue than music does by several times the amount, appealing to a much broader audience and a far bigger 'social equalizer'. IMO, the Hallyu Wave in the future will very likely become more and more focused on gaming and other forms of entertainment while music falls from the priority list (of course, this also means the govt will likely need new leaders to support this too, rather than the current lot that are incapable of looking at things in the long-term). Music and films were the biggest players of soft-power in the 20th century....gaming will likely completely overtake the soft-power expansion in this century.

^ 토토로 = Totoro Photo was taken at Chungnam (slang for South Chungchung Province), Buyeo County (fun fact - also the most richest province in all of Korea)

This was kinda expected really. Anyone following K-pop would know that the Korean government has pretty.....weird regulations on certain things. But then again, you can't expect much from a nanny state that is incapable of getting its priorities straight.

^ Probably so. Broadcasting stations in Korea are cancelling out every show related to the showbiz and focusing almost entirely on the incident as of now. It's major breaking news there at the moment.

There is a very strong difference to a solo that rises up thanks to their label's influence and power, and one that goes up based on their skill/talent (and being less reliant on it). It's impossible to see people like Jay Park or Hyuna becoming long-time solos like some I have mentioned above, nor do they show any capability of improving - after all, it can be seen with Lee Hyori, who's essentially nowhere near as active as she used to be in the past and will become more inactive as time flies. BoA is also well headed to that route. Supernova wasn't exactly well-known in Korea, considering they were overshadowed by groups like DBSK, Super Junior, Big Bang before T-ara was formed. T-ara's fame blew up there simply because the song was well-received in general. Not because of Supernova. There's a reason why the group promotes far more in Japan than Korea and has been doing so for years. Which also means it hurts the chances of those that want to be long-term solos in the music scene - which, would be Soyeon's case. Even for an idol group, their live performances are very well-known to be quite lackluster, nor does it help that a gunk of their promoted songs (IGCBOY, LTFT, Roly Poly, BPBP, Sexy Love, Lovey Dovey and so on) are very autotuned and make them sound like chipmunks.

I'd have to strongly disagree. Hyuna is a terrible example, since talent-wise she's very mediocre at best and outright bad at worst (especially with rapping and 'singing', if at all of the latter). This is something that is very much well-accepted among many, aside from maybe her fans. Just because they've had a couple of solo shots in the past does not mean they can be an actual solo, yet alone one whose talent is pretty much acknowledged or have potential in the future (especially in Jiyeon's case - considering none of the OSTs she's done have ever been sung live, and she was less-than-mediocre when performing with Soyeon's one for the movie Death Bell 2). There's a very distinct line between a solo who has the serious talent and capability of becoming one acknowledged of his/her skill and one that hugely relies on fandom and company power to achieve acknowledged solo status but having considerably less skill. Actual solos, at least in Korea, would be folks like Gummy, Cho Youngpil, Lee Seungchul etc. Fully agreed with you there except this bit :3 As a casual K-hiphop fan/listener, Hyomin cannot be considered a rapper ><

*Rolls eyes* As solo singers? My god, that is just stretching it far. None of those two are even capable as branching out as solo singers. Not even Soyeon has the chops to branch out successfully as a solo. Their lives aren't exactly what you can consider 'solo' capability, especially compared to actual solo singers out there, or even idol vocalists like Taeyeon and Hyorin >__>.

I'm not in any disagreement with you (just to be clear) hahaha. I just have a tendency to discuss things very lengthily wherever I go....too often, I have a bad habit of not knowing when to stop (call me a verbal express train XD) It's actually probable the amount of free-time they get is likely increased compared to pre-late July 2012, though the difference itself likely isn't all that significant (this was kinda my point) After all, with solo activities cut down dramatically compared to since then, what you say does make sense. Note - I keep track of K-social SNS every now and then (being Korean here and all, so Naver's a common site I visit), and can safely say you'd have to be lucky to find anything of such, yet alone one that's a legit account (fancafes are an exception, though I'm not a member of those). I had quite a few relatives that worked for the ROK government as early as the 1960s, and generally speaking, the work hours depend on which ministry you work for and the specific position you're working in. For example, if you're port customs officer, veteran cop or a senior analyst for an institution contracted by govt, you'd be working far more compared to a receptionist, administrations or a clerk who generally work 8-hour shifts, with the occasional overtime. Heck, military personnel (including riot police conscripts) get 3-4 weeks of leave every year, not counting the public holidays. And for certain, your average Korean worker does not have it harder than an idol has as far as work amounts go. Granted, work hours in Korea are pretty long for OECD standards, though in recent times, there's been a huge push to lower working hours (both in public and private sector) + there's been an increase of public holidays (16 in total as of 2013). http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/yonhap-news-agency/130910/s-korea-pushes-lower-maximum-weekly-working-hours-52 http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/south-koreans-battle-for-civilised-working-hours-330167 Bluntly put, it simply depends on what your job is and who you work for (and in the case of the showbiz, one can only imagine how hard the accompanying staff have it, considering they work pretty much the same hours as the idols do but at a much, much smaller paycheck). But at least your average worker doesn't have their privacy invaded in severely gross means, and in the end are not bound by slave-like contracts - whereas in the case of idols, it's not uncommon to not even being allowed cell phones and having to work for mobsters or simply people deeply connected with them as a significant portion of Korea's entertainment business is associated (if not even controlled by) with organized crime since as early as the 1960s, not to mention severe diets that are borderline to starvation, prostitution rings and the list goes on. Heck, it's not even abnormal for idols not being able to see their families for months if not even longer. I mean no offense (and an opinion is an opinion after all), but it's a really overly optimistic view on T-ara's overall career - especially if you take what they show in front of the camera at heart. Masking your own emotions/expressions is an almost universal thing in idol groups, and T-ara's done this many, many times too. KARA, I can get, but things pretty much calmed down for them after the lawsuit (but they don't fit in the 08/09 bracket as they debuted in 07). None of those groups have gone through a bruta if not even sickly management that lasted as long as T-ara's at any given point. Unlike those groups, T-ara was also lucky that they scored big from the get-go and came from a big company that could push them through the influx of increasing idol groups, whereas TS Entertainment and CUBE only barely started to hit the idol scene while in DSP's case, Rainbow itself was overshadowed by KARA and SS501.

The question though would be how often the free time is given to them compared to the amount of work they have, as well as how long each free time is. If it's just a couple of hours each time (which, is the most likely and at most, probably a day or so)...that really isn't much to be relieved about, since you'd also have to take into account how much hours a day is also dedicated to sleeping (IIRC, during promotions, they stated the average hours of sleep they get is as little as 2-3 hours). After all, if they do get decent amount of time as you say, at least a couple of average folks would have spotted them and posted it up online (especially in a country like Korea, particularly in districts like Gangnam or Yeoido island). Compared to some other groups out there, they're definitely working too much even for idol standards - that I think anyone can really be in mutual agreement in. Probably not as severe as the pre-scandal days partly due to also solo activities, but still pretty overly hazardous.

They themselves have made quite a few mentions that they're being overworked. In fact, overworking to the bone is almost a norm in the Korean showbizz and it doesn't take much research to find that, especially since labor laws in Korea's showbiz aren't very well-enforced + contracts that essentially make the companies own every aspect of yourself. And with holding concerts, showcases and a LOT of song promotions plus attending events....that pretty much says they're not working 9-5 like a lot of us do, that's for sure. If they're not doing variety shows or interviews, chances are it's replaced with practice sessions, gym or whatever else that doesn't get shown in their schedule for public viewing (IIRC, there was a mention that for members who had completed schedules for the day, CCM would simply make them do something else to make up for it).

Doubt that J-ROCK is to be the only one to be blamed for this just entirely. It's not like they have a massive pull on the showbiz on Japan like KKS does in Korea and you can't deny possibilities of other parties also rejecting T-ara's appearances in TV for whatever reason they have. Overall K-pop popularity in Japan has been on a decline this year, and T-ara is just one of them. Just because they had songs that were high up in the charts and did some concerts here and there followed by a tour does not mean that everything is going to be necessarily fine and dandy for them, especially since the group only caters to a niche audience, much like the rest of K-pop does anywhere else. Likewise, their sales in Japan this year, especially Target and Treasure Box have been pretty abysmal compared to the past - the same exact trend that has been going on with KARA and SNSD, both who have a significantly larger fanbase in Japan.