Scatter_88mil

@FreakyFlyBri Hmm, where to start... 1. To my best of knowledge, and heard from SSF forums itself, the album is believed to be out this year and actual work on it started this year too, at the latest (or last year at the earliest). I could easily apply for T-ara, but they're at a much sore disadvantage compared to SNSD from the get-go, with no fluency in English in any of the members here. Nor is CCM even anywhere adept, connected, influential or even competent business-wise to SM. 2. Contacts - the same can exactly apply to Korea's music industry as well. This is a very well-known fact, with idols and their agencies constantly kissing up to the asses of broadcast companies, PDs, drama production companies, CF companies and hell, the list goes on and on and 'darker' along the way. I don't see how Chris Brown featuring in some song of N4 is going to actually boost up their popularity in the US - marginally? Perhaps so, people may give them some degree of attention. But as rising super stars? Hell no. There is absolutely nothing that guarantees this. Considering this is CCM we're talking about, not to mention the lack of any real details regarding Dani-Chris Brown relations, the whole affair does not even make much sense to begin with. Who in America is actually going to care about a group of 4 Korean women hanging around with Chris Brown? Chances are, most people on first glance are probably going to think "Oh, looks like Brown got hooked up with 4 Asian girls from China" or something along those lines. Regardless, people are going to find out about it if N4 continues to stay. I don't see how you're even generalizing the attitudes of people of a country with a population of over 300 million. As far as I'm concerned, working with someone with a very well-known record of domestic abuse and violence is an immoral disgrace and anything that's done to condone it, is simply put, unacceptable. That's like asking a cop to work with an active serial killer to hunt down another serial killer. It's not cool at all. They're basically working with a damn nutter who should have gone to prison, for crying out loud. Hell, even T-ara themselves didn't know until articles were released to the media. Now, if they were collaborating with those with a clean record, such as Linkin Park, Jason Mraz and the such, then no complaints. But with one with a criminal record? Even if people in the US don't give much of a flying hell about it, morally, it's still unacceptable and tarnishes the group's image even further down the drain. 3. Regarding JWD and what you said regarding their activities, this merely proves my point and prediction from roughly a month ago or so, that JWD isn't going to perform very well in the charts. It was a given from the get-go and it's not merely the Korean public that is the issue. It's CCM. The two CANNOT co-exist peacefully and I think plenty of evidence that backs this up exists even with a simple Google search. So long as CCM continues to media-play the group aka feed the netizens, it's only going to deteriorate things for T-ara further and further and continues to drive down any attempt of redemption to 0%. Activities in the US are not going to make up for this in the long run and whatever hopes the fandom has of N4 hitting it big in the United States is at best, is wishful thinking. CCM cannot sustain such a thing at all and let's be frank - even though America has its own share of less-than-talented stars, N4 isn't exactly that talented as a group either, if not even below. T-ara's lives have consistently been among the weakest of idol groups and N4's JWD lives showed zero improvement of this. If anything, the group should have stayed in Japan where they had any real degree of success, even though they're not widely popular in Japan to begin with. Playing safe and playing morally, to put it simply. I'll admit I'm pessimistic as hell, but I still stand by my opinion that there isn't going to be any real significant success for N4 in America, working with a criminal is absolutely unacceptable and should not be overlooked or condoned in any single way and that at best, CCM is grasping at straws with no real major plan in sight for this entire thing or more busy with making itself look like some splendid perfection of a K-pop agency like it always does. This is KKS's own selfish delusional greed and unrealistic dreams playing here. Not something what N4 would have wanted nor even honestly shown what they wanted. They didn't even know jack about it until they saw articles about it in the Internet, so he basically forced them to work in the US and indirectly, fans are also condoning such a decision whether they realize it or not.

Ugh, I'm not the only one a bit sick from just looking at the photo, am I? As a few others have mentioned, at best, it's a PR move. A ridiculous one at that. Hell, not even the Big 3 companies could crack on America with their acts in the past so it makes it even more illogical (and to put it very bluntly, awfully dumb and foolhardy) for a company like CCM to attempt it. Korea has its own share of hip-hop artists who are actually legitimate in what they do and it's these guys who are more taken seriously in that genre. T-N4 is not one of them.

On a side note, aside from the Rihanna case, Chris Brown is also known to have even gotten in pretty bad scraps with Frank Ocean and Drake Graham a while back too (the latter which involved a LOT of people injured). The guy spells nothing short of a troublemaker, to say the least.

SNSD supposedly has a full English album in the works that's supposed to be out this year (not sure when) but a good number of Sones themselves (including me) don't really think it's going to succeed. Even with two native speakers, it's simply not going to work despite that the members are supposedly decking more on their English studies. But to be honest, no Korean music celebrity has ever succeeded in America. BoA, Se7en, Wonder Girls to name a few went to America during the height of their popularity but failed miserably. The American music industry is completely different to what the Korean music industry is - and is much more cutthroat, to put it at that too. If even some of Korea's most popular acts failed, there's no way T-ara can go half as close as they did. The only example is Psy and he's only a one-hit wonder at best. 2NE1 had wil.i.am with them and they didn't fare too well themselves. I don't know about you, but a good many people don't look at Chris Brown very positively and his music hits high in the charts? Well he still has fans that actually think lightly of what he did with Rihanna. Let's say T-ara's name was spread thanks to collabing with CB - among the many things people are going to quickly find out is T-ara's scandal last year and how badly screwed up their management is. It's a double-bladed sword. Going to make a jump in the US is not something that should be taken so lightly. Korean celebrities in the past have tried and failed when they were at the height of their popularity in Korea and there is no way T-ara can even go achieve as much as they have there, regardless of collaborating or not. If anything, the group should be focusing more in Japan. Not doing some wild one-shot attempt in the US.

This is absolutely and even appallingly ridiculous. Chris Brown's reputation for being an woman beater alone is more than enough to say that this is one of the most profoundedly stupid moves on CCM's part for T-ara's already broken image. It's like they're trying to damage the group's image even further! Come on, seriously? Do they even have any idea what Chris did to Rihanna? The man is a horrible scumbag who should have his ass hauled to jail and forbidden from the showbiz. Being a womanizer as well, if anything, T-ara should stay away from him as far as possible. With SNSD preparing for its own US debut this year, seems like CCM's gotten bloated off with its idiocy again. Why am I not surprised. Then again, CCM did try to make T-ara a group of 9 members like SNSD last year

Korea doesn't have a specific Mother's or Father's Day like many other countries do and is simply combined into Parent's Day on every May 8th. Heck, there's even Children's Day there on May 5th.

Eunjung said firstly, "I wanted to say something. I truly did not know she would be taken out of the group. My heart really hurt from it as well," as she began to cry. Hyomin then said, "It was not bullying." The trailer captured all the members wiping away their tears. T-ara N4 are expected to really reveal what happened during the "bullying" issue last year." Yes, and please actually address what happened in full detail, unlike that poor sorry-ass excuse of a show called 'Confession' last year, which was supposed to address things yet it didn't even go anywhere close to doing so and pretty much was overhyped crap + wasting the time of many who were actually looking forward to the issue being discussed about in detail. People are particularly going to want to know why KKS made so many dumb and contradictory statements that made him look like someone removed his brain (not that he has much of one to begin with) and why exactly the group was eerily silent during the heated days of the scandal prior to Soyeon's interview. What they said in that trailer was hardly any different in nature to what was said in 'Confession' way back. We want full answers from their own mouths. I should give a general subbed summary of this when the ep is uploaded here like I did with 'Confession' last year :3

No problem at all But in this case, I really think the word 'reunion' would have better fitted the description, rather than the word 'hiatus', which gives off a pretty wrong impression on first glance. The article doesn't say anything specific about them having a 11 year hiatus from their drama career to T-ara's MV in any particular sentence either, as far as I see it. Besides, CCM's always made a lot of over-exaggerations in the past when it comes to hyping T-ara prior to comebacks. Either way, seems like case is solved. Disclosed :3

@Eunjung4eva - I answered your question via PM I actually found it pretty difficult to answer, considering it's a pretty broad question but I hope the answer suffices haha. If you got any more questions about it, just ask away and I'll be happy to give an answer. On the other hand though, what I mentioned in my above post is true though - neither of those two were on hiatus for 11 years at all, just pointing out a correction, that's all (admittedly, the whole '11 year hiatus' thing seemed pretty suspicious at first glance since such a case is rare, if not never heard of among Korean celebrities. You can check their profiles on Dramawiki, as the list of dramas they were in is there). Lol, been around here and there. The one thing that boggles me though, is that if it's supposedly a countryside MV...then why were the earlier pics related to something of a rehashed visual of 2NE1 or EVOL of the sort :/ It doesn't really make all that much sense to me, unless there's two MVs being released - a dance-in-the-box version and a drama MV (which CCM always seems hellbent on doing, even though it's not really all that necessary). I squealed upon the announcement of the QBS sub-unit though :3 I *hope* it'll be something good i.e. something that isn't autotuned to death or cheesy as heck aegyo :/ This was way, way long overdue XD.

"The national actor Choi Boolam and actress Kim Sumi will appear in T-ara N4's new "Rural Life" music video after being on hiatus for 11 years." Choi Bool-am and Kim Sumi certainly were not on hiatus for 11 years from K-dramas *facepalm*. Even a quick Google search with their names proves that, unless the article is saying they hadn't been in the same show for 11 years - which in that case, the word 'hiatus' is a pretty moot point.

Eh...it's like Lovey Dovey and some other song among T-ara's hit records had a child together...

Am I the only one here who thinks the amount of photoshop in that teaser image is overly done?

Holy smokes, 2NE1, hip-hop? Damn, that is just not right at all XD. Yea, aside from a Cry Cry style of concept, TTL also comes into mind as well (after all, it was focused on just four of the members, as an ideal T-ara subunit should be). Now that was a kickass concept and song, far none. After all, it was the group's first hit song that slayed the charts at the time of its release . Ah, good times... If I were to be overly optimistic, the article could be trying to say this subgroup is going to the TTL-style, but may have used the wrong words for it (I certainly would not call TTL a 'hiphop concept', nor can it even be called such). But I wouldn't really put my hopes and prayers on that :/ And yea, it's been a while we quoted each other's post

Granted, you got a point that it'd be better with all that whacked up aegyo and all but LOL, an idol group going the hip-hop concept is bound to get mocked just as much for being 'swag-wannabe' or something along those lines, if not more. Heck, G-Dragon is labelled as 'try-hard', 'wannabe' or even 'fake' by many, and it's not like Hyomin, Eunjung and Areum's rapping is really that spectacular either. Quite frankly, I think a Cry Cry or Day By Day-style concept would have suited them a bit more lol.

Oh for the love of God, if it's hip-hop....oh dear hell no. The last thing any K-pop idol group needs is trying to go for the hip-hop concept, especially when K-hiphop itself is a pretty well-known and prevalent sub-sector of the music industry in Korea. Edit - The person who wrote the article seems to not know that Harajuku is actually in the Shibuya ward, and even then, there's a separate shopping district commonly called 'Shibuya' located elsewhere in the area. Having been in Harajuku myself a few years back...let's just say that a lot of the stuff sold there is pretty...well, whacky. Boy, I still remember that shop owner who had piercings covering all of her lips, nose, ears and even eyebrows :3 And the black guys that try to pressure you to buy their stuff by giving you 10% discounts on their overly pricey yet fake items...not to mention their shops are always at either the 2nd floor or at a nearby alley of the main shopping street :3. Ah, good times.

Well that escalated quickly. But if anything, it'd make more sense to have the group fully focus on this particular album rather than trying to juggle it with this subgroup at the same time. If this ends up becoming a mini-album or single, much like last year when CCM said T-ara's Korean 2nd studio album would be out in summer, then it's just another half-assed attempt of keeping its promise.

I really don't think CCM did itself any justice in making any mention of Hwayoung, because last time I recall, Hwayoung didn't withdraw from the group. They made it sound like she voluntarily resigned, which everyone knows here is complete bullhonkey. She was expelled/fired for unjustified reasons by KKS. Plain and simple, nothing more complicated than that. Anyone who disagrees, then by all means, be welcome to be labelled a CCM defender. I personally didn't find her appealing or very talented, but kicking someone out for lousy reasons like that is more or less hardly any different to how victims of bullying in Korean schools are treated by school authorities. T-ara will form this unit to try and mend the hearts of millions of fans again. Unit groups have been popular lately with Sistar19, 2YOON, ZE:A5, Infinite-H, and various other groups. Last time I checked, T-ara did not have 'millions' of fans - because quite frankly, no K-pop group has that sort of number of fans and it's impossible to do so. Then again, CCM over-exaggerates its numbers all the time so that shouldn't come as a surprise. I still chuckle at its claim that 'thousands' of fans rushed to see T-ara at the airport (in Vietnam or Malaysia, can't remember) last year. Ditto about Sistar19, but 2YOON, Infinite H and Zea:5 certainly are not nation-wide popular in Korea. Zea:5 only debuted just 2 weeks ago and 2Yoon's sales for Harvest Moon were only a little over 5,000. Doesn't help that 4minute as a group is more well known among people as 'Hyuna and friends' either. Not exactly 'popular', CCM, unless you're solely referring to popular among teenagers there. Only Infinite-H has seen real success and that's because largely of their particularly devoted fanbase, much like Super Junior, DBSK, Big Bang or any major boy group in Korea. As for trying to 'bring back a craze similar to the Roly Poly dance', I really doubt T-ara has much sway in deciding the choreography for its promoted tracks and hell, to repeat the same former glory thing in K-pop is almost impossible. Even SNSD's releases in 2011 and 2010 never managed to go beyond the craze that Gee and Tell Me Your Wish Genie was able to pull off nationwide, and they're under the largest and most wealthy agency in K-pop. There's little to no hope to even think CCM/KKS can do any better. Every major group in K-pop has its big one-time mass success release and releases after that don't usually do much better in scale. Doesn't help that the tolerance of idol groups nowadays is steadily going lower while those like Akdong Musician and Busker Busker are being more favored by the public. But either way, CCM's known to overhype/over-exaggerate things about T-ara more so than often so I won't put my hopes onto this sub-unit being a success yet. Y'know, sometimes I wish T-ara (or CCM for that matter) would stop using Shinsadong Tiger so dominantly for their hit tracks. Musically, it's not really doing the group any favors in having their voices sound like autotuned chipmunks and even difficult to distinguish in the majority of their promoted tracks unless you see the performances in Youtube or in an MV - from BPBP, Lovey Dovey, It Really Hurts, Roly Poly and Sexy Love (ALL by Shinsadong Tiger, to my knowledge) while their older stuff like Lies, TTL and even DBD are largely ignored or simply forgotten despite that they also did reasonably well in the charts while similar stuff made are put aside as filler tracks. Plus even though there's been a trend of sub-units, their sales aren't exactly impressive. As I mentioned above, 2Yoon didn't sell very much and even SISTAR19's recent album got roughly just 10.5k sales. Considering T-ara's not exactly 'popular' in Korea, it's doubtful this subgroup can sell more than 10k or even 20k for that matter, yet alone match its competitors. Though if it's solely digitally released like SISTAR19's Ma Boy, then it should be a wholly different story, as least theoratically (also going by that girl groups tend to do much better with digital than physical). I'll also add that Ji/Eun/Hyo are also the most disliked/hated members of the group as of now, Jiyeon and Hyomin in particular.

Ah cheers mate! But...dang, 12:99 here in NZD :/ That is one hugely expensive app there.

Just want to ask - is there any more details about it? Such as price? Release date? If it's a dating sim game...is it a T-ara dating game?

@vervainify Yea, you've pretty much nailed what I was trying to say and my intentions the whole time (hell, probably even wholly as a member here). If I had to put it very simply, one of K-pop's biggest flaws is that the idol groups are constantly sugarcoated and marketed by their agencies as perfect saints that can do absolutely no harm or bad - and as a Korean myself, I do feel obliged to let international fans know that not everything is clear glossy crystal as it's made to be. Thanks for putting it very clearly Couldn't have said it better myself haha. @Eunjung4eva In my defense, it's not merely out of pride or stubbornness - as much as I can be strong and harshly-worded at times, I do know when to draw the line, concede or stop (as I'm sure you're well aware of our discussions in the past - and attempted to in this previous debacle). The biggest problem I have is that Ryu's behavior has always been like this in the past and has received a lot of flak and complaints for it so it's to be expected he would at least behave more properly instead of repeating the same thing he's been complained about - which does not do anyone any favors at all. And certainly, making excuses for iljins that do things that can be considered criminal acts is actually pretty stupid, no matter how much defense is put onto it. Notice that he also has ignored your suggestion of having a more calm approach. As I've mentioned in my previous posts, you perhaps may not have witnessed all the extensive arguments other members had gone through with him in the past (and quite frankly, this occurred a lot more frequently and as one who expected him to behave and be more reasonable due to all the trouble he caused as well as ignoring him after all this time, I had to draw the line in between). You can talk to other regulars here regarding this history and I'll guarantee you, that they'll very likely will say he has issues - namely absolute intolerance to opinions that contrast his. That I can surely and safely say, is the behavior of a fanatic and Diadem quite frankly, doesn't need people like that. Nitpicking sentences and paragraphs and making multiple arguments out of another argument, as I recall, is not very pleasant and comes off as rude, disrespectful and disruptive to the opposite party and makes debates more heated and pointless (and I'll tell you that even moderator GRIMLOCK himself had his own unpleasant experience regarding Ryu as well). As one who does his best to be a law-abiding citizen in general though, I will still reserve the option to report him without hesitation if he repeats such behavior again. But with that said, as moderator SimonH said, let's put an end to the argument here as it does not do anyone any favors by this point. I won't dwell any further into this, the moderator's word always triumphs and I fully respect that. I'll concede here that I myself have gotten carried away myself a bit and heavily apologize for any inconveniences it may have caused for others here, whether it be regular members or staff. As @Eunjung4eva and SimonH have stated, I also agree put this whole argument to a complete close (can someone actually lock this to prevent it from going wild again? Just to be safe. That's all) Thanks peeps!

@Emperor Ryu - clearly, you have no idea when to stop and seeing you're doing it again, I'm going to have to say that you obviously have crossed the line and I will be taking full consideration of reporting you to the staff. 1. Where did I say Hyomin can't redeem herself? Hm? Nowhere did I say she 'can't' redeem herself and I clearly implied she has the choice to. Whether if she did or not, is up to the individual to decide. 2. Nowhere did I say that everyone in the fandom is a fanatic or a blindly fool. Again, you're making a complete twist out of my words to suit your own lala world of perfectionism of 'Oh, T-ara STRONG and PERFECT!' chest-thumping. I am however, highly positive that a significant number of people here are very not aware of the members' own pasts and to set them a balanced view of the group rather than being overly biased and making themselves no better than being antis or netizens (which is why fanwars occur) and discussions regarding their negative aspects should be considered an open and free thing to do. You obviously have a problem with the latter. Did I even condemn Hyomin as some sort of witch or something? No, but as far as I'm concerned, whichever is more direct, is more effective in my eyes and it should be in everyone's awareness - and let them know T-ara aren't some perfect saintly angels as CCM and its puppet media outlet Newsen makes them out to be. Criticism is due when its due and in Hyomin's case, she deserves it and it should be a free topic to discuss and engage without anyone interrupting it and thumping the whole discussion apart. 3. So beating up other students and stealing their money (which is something every iljin does - in fact, considered a core trait of being one), driving others to suicide, underage smoking and drinking as well as prostituting themselves to older men for 'fun' even though all of these are clearly against the law doesn't make them criminals? What sort of blasted logic is that? This is absolutely revolting and it is a clear insult, sign of disrespect and/or sheer ignorance to all the victims of iljins throughout all of Korea, and that's putting it nicely. In fact, as one who had a friend who was nearly murdered and put in hospital for 2 months, also requiring surgery thanks to such fiends (and the iljin himself getting only merely a week of suspension and cleaning up the school for a week after that), I also find your comment rather offensive on even a personal level. Absolutely tasteless and appalling of you to say. 4. *Facepalm*. Last time I checked, insulting someone in the internet or making some rumor about them does not constitute as a crime in South Korea. If it is, you're basically saying freedom of speech shouldn't be allowed and everything should be pro-T-ara. These 'antis' don't even operate like a gang themselves - do they go around beating or murdering people when they see one of their own members are attacked? No. Do they go around trying to scam CCM or T-ara for money? No. I don't care what the dictionary says - it's how a group operates and what it does, that makes them a gang. From your logic, I should be a member of a gang simply because me and a few of my friends took money away from an iljin's room in the dorms when we had ours stolen in the first place and the latter promised to pay it all back but failed to do so countless times (and mind you, this isn't even illegal in Korea either so don't even think about saying I'm a 'criminal'). 5. There was no unauthorized access, or rather, the chances of it are minimal, especially when it's more likely someone from that particular iljin group decided to spill the beans instead which makes much more sense than some deluded crazy old hacker smashing through Hyomin's ID. Is that so hard to really consider? For someone as biased as you, probably yes. 6. Unconfirmed, yet it makes more logical sense to apologize on their own to calm the public down regardless if they're right or wrong. They clearly did not, and it is arguably one of the larger factors that led to the situation deteriorating even further. It's a hell lot more sensible than having one member write a letter that doesn't even explain everything while the rest just put their own signatures. Tell me, you think that would've even worked in the first place? I sure as hell don't take T-ara as a bunch of dummies who don't have bricks for brains and considering reputation is a strong part of Korean culture, it would have made much more sense that they did much better than one mere lousy letter. That is pure PR incompetence too. The way how you give off such excuses to this group and saying they're absolutely unmistaken alone is flawed and shows how biased you are in regards to the situation as a whole. They clearly have their own mistakes - the most notable is doing absolutely nothing productive to calm the storm and airing out their dirty laundry over Twitter. Even if it wasn't intentional, they should have been much more careful with their words but they were not. Accident or not, I for one will not give them just a overlook it or give them a slap in the wrist for it. 7. Eunjung, Hyomin and Jiyeon were also the most popular of the group, hence it makes more sense people would dig up and throw more dirt at them. What part of that do you not understand? To even deny it, is outright ignorance. There is a specific difference between attacking the group and individually picking down on every member, no matter how similar the two concepts may look. There are antis that went after specific members and others that aimed for the group as a whole. From your logic, I should say that every military unit going on the offense to take out a specific target is also interpreted the same way as just attacking whatever the heck is on that specific target. 8. No but you already clearly made an implication that Korea should follow how the US does in regards to scandals about celebrities, even though both countries' cultures and societies are immensely different. To make any comparisons alone between the two is illogical. You clearly have not lived in either the US mainland (seeing you live in Hawaii) or even South Korea so what you say are at best merely theories and not substantial at any point. No, but he/she who has the experience of such comes off as an equally, if not even more valuable to know bad things than from someone who never experienced it themselves. Hell, from your logic, I should then rely on government propaganda, schools or whatever educational institution regarding the nature of war rather than talking with veterans or reading what they experienced first hand. Nothing beats first hand experience. Education for the most part, is largely theory but does not give the practical know-hows adequately - heck, these days high schools don't even prepare their students for university. In fact, I should probably have relied on school authorities regarding violence than the students themselves. There's awareness based on what's learnt from the mouths of others, and awareness based on what's learnt from those that experienced such things first hand. I frankly don't see how these antis and journalists are even 'committing a crime' either so it renders your argument virtually invalid anyway. If they're 'committing a crime' as you say, then you're basically saying their freedom of speech should be taken away even if no one was actually hurt from what they did. And quite frankly, it's not like T-ara and CCM showed major butthurtedness to it either, otherwise they would have all had their asses sued by now. And finally, you can deny it all you want, yet in SSF, your ID there is the exact same along with your DoB, not to mention your residence (Hawaii) - not to mention in other Kpop girl group fan forums too. Are you going to say that they're all imposters too then? You clearly wrote up "Kpop fan since 1997" (and this is present in virtually every profile feed in other fan forums too) so that says quite a lot about you. You're clearly not capable of admitting any mistake a female idol does and even when they do, you sugarcoat it, make all sorts of excuses for them and point all the blame on people who aren't fans of them, all the while bunching up netizens and antis into one category, which alone, is absolute nonsense. Why? Because you're a K-pop stanner or even dare say, a Koreaboo, at least by definition. And to fit you in an existing category, you would belong into the typical 'Oppa/Unnie didn't mean it!' crowd which is just unsettling, especially for someone at your age. Hey, maybe you oughta work in CCM's PR department then! Some people I talked to often in SSF's Sbox clearly even asked you whether if you're the same person here, yet you refused to give a clear answer or outright ignore them. Is it that hard to say 'yes' or 'no'? Admit it mate, you're being two-faced yourself in this field and a lot of regulars I talked to there already see you as the same person. As I have said again and again, much of what you say is pretty much invalid or simply just pure hypothetical - and you clearly do not have the experience in living both in a eastern and western society yourself to even have a neutral stance between both sides or make your claims very solid or irrefutable. Since you've nitpicked my paragraphs and twisting nonsense out of them again - I'll be taking full consideration of reporting you for repeating such behavior. You obviously have problems and have shown utter intolerance to anything that isn't 'pro-T-ara' even at the slightest which is just borderline to being a biased fanatic, much like that infamous person at Tumblr known as soyeonfanboy - and personally, I don't think Diadem needs people like that going around annoying others and sounding off like a prick. Eunjung4eva here, also suggested you should put your behavior down a bit, but no, you clearly ignored that too. This is the final straw and I will end my argument here. People like you are just impossible and I'd even dare say, are the reason why keeping a civilized and neutral discussion here since last year have become awfully rare and even so, go dead rather quickly. If you don't like someone's opinion, then don't bother. If you feel it should be corrected, then do it mannerly and humanely, rather than nitpicking every paragraph and creating multiple arguments out of a larger one, which effectively renders them impossible to debate and makes you look like a troublemaker. I rest my case. If you do your twisting and nitpicking again to make more arguments out of each paragraph, you'll be undoubtedly reported because it's rude, disruptive and disrespectful. End of story, end of argument, end of this completely. Nothing more. I've had enough of this. @Eunjung4eva - I'd have to respectfully disagree. Emperor is not someone even the more reasonable members here would want to debate with, if past discussions in 2012 have ever shown anything. I've lost my patience with him completely and quite frankly, he's gone way overboard. Again. Maybe you weren't around back then to see it happen, but nevertheless, I can guarantee you'll find quite a few people who I enjoyed having discussions with around here who share almost the same view I have towards him. The fandom, in my personal observation, has been clearly divided thanks to that scandal last year despite all having their support to the group. Before it, there was a general sense of unity among people here - namely for T-ara to be given the long rest they deserved for so long or even outright leaving or firing a lawsuit at CCM while also showing a united outrage against CCM's idiocy, threats and disregards of well-being towards the group. But that seems to be long gone now, or rather, is no longer something people wish the most for the group and has largely degenerated into a bitter and heavily bi-polarized fans vs netizens vs anti conflict, much like any other fandom known infamously for such things (ELFs, VIPs, Cassies, Sones etc). Just before the scandal, it was fans, netizens and even antis all ganged up against CCM. A car can't go on smoothly without proper maintenance of its engines and wheels and a routine fuel-up - and T-ara is still in this situation and likely will until its final days regardless of what casualties will be taken (Eunjung, Soyeon and Jiyeon's leg injuries as well as Boram's hospitalization of acute gastritis and implied depression were definitely not enough). There seems to be no more sympathy regarding this nowadays, people just being more concerned with seeing T-ara in front of their screens more than how hard they're having it as a group and individuals. The scandal has clearly wrapped up people for T-ara to just continue on going, even though it could have been used for the girls to get some down time they desperately needed and let the heated steam from the other side slowly whither away - and probably would be the more preferred alternative for fans, the general public and even antis i.e. maintaining a better and more neutral status quo instead of bi-polarizing the whole situation to the extremes among all three sides as it is now today. I can safely assume that if T-ara decided to stay in low profile with zero media attention after that scandal, things would have been much more positive and it would have made a subsequent comeback a much more bigger explosion. Time is always the best factor in healing things like this. The day the group leaves CCM, whether as individuals or together as a group, I think it could really be celebrated among people here And I realized I rambled on again XD. My apologies lol. Sidenote - btw, you're right Yoona is the most popular, though this is largely among the public in general haha. Taeyeon and Tiffany are the most popular members within the Sone community though outside of that, I would somewhat say the former's popularity does rival Yoona's in some aspects (additionally, Yoona' popularity seemed to have gone a bit stale over recent months)

@4Eunjung4eva It's my pleasure to be of assistance and of a decent discussion with you too But yes, I suppose we can say we're completely clear and in agreement in regards to Eunjung. I won't go as far to put her on the same level of blame as opposed to say, Hyomin or Jiyeon, but so long as she keeps herself well-tidied of any serious risk, I think we're on the same page for the most part For Soyeon, it would have been easy to miss as her own mini-scandal erupted during the midst of the group scandal itself (so it'd have been easily overlooked). But yea, Netizenbuzz did link the Nate Pann source, though unfortunately the whole thing was shut down so until someone decides to take particular interest and effort, it'll remain a mystery (hell, I plan on becoming a cop myself after military service so...maybe I should hahaha ) Having been a fan and anti myself in the past before, I do try to keep a more neutral balance between that of fans, antis and netizens, while refusing to pick sides so quickly and understand both three sides' reasons as best as possible (though it's certainly a different story when it comes to more serious criminals such as Open World Entertainment's CEO). In my defense, I would say I was talking about their achievement in a more broader sense - to put it very specifically, T-ara's achievement can be considered an achievement on their own right, though in the broad sense i.e. over the whole music industry in Japan, it obviously wouldn't be considered as such. Again, I probably should have been much more clearer with how I worded it lol, but I hope this clears things up a bit. And of course, top Japanese singers and idols would be much more popular since...well, because it's in Japan, home to the world's second largest music industry lol. Undoubtedly, singers, idols and artists would be a lot more popular in their home country than abroad for the most part, especially when their home countries to be largely a homogeneous ethnicity. But yes, to cut it short, T-ara's achievements are an achievement in their own right but in terms of achievement scale in the industry itself, it's not really much of an impact, if any. I think that's pretty much the most clear-cut way to describe their relevance in Japan, along with many other K-pop groups that try to make money off there. Had CCM not overexaggerated T-ara's recent achievements, then I probably wouldn't have been as hard-worded myself (but even then, the legitimacy of CCM's statements are at best, rather untrustworthy so I'd very likely still have been skeptical at the least). That's...pretty much all I have to say lol (pardon me if I've rambled on a bit) And thank you too as well for being reasonable and understanding yourself and again, it's my pleasure to be of assistance and engaging in civilized discussions with you, as usual Diadem could really use more calmer discussions such as this on a more frequent basis hahaha. Technically speaking, I don't think it would hurt to have just one or even two of the three in a subunit with one of the more underrated members lol. TaeTiSeo comes in mind, where Taeyeon and Tiffany are considered the more popular members whereas Seohyun is not as much, being overshadowed by not only those two but also by Jessica, Yoona and arguably, even Sunny.

I think it's a misuderstanding lol, probably because I worded it a bit too strongly hahaha. But yea, to answer your question regarding Eunjung, I was specifically referring to the rice-cake incident. Soyeon's one definitely isn't very crystal clear and on the more unfortunate note, the only form of original evidence was deleted in Nate Pann (specifically of the guy who claimed it, as he said he works in the showbizz and showed pictures to prove it). As for T-ara's previous news on the 100k+ fans and 'great success', I equated it to Kara and GG because the article made it sound like that T-ara was becoming a mega K-pop group at Japan in a similar level, which is far from true or even reality. K-pop, contrary to what many K-pop fans would claim, only caters to a niche audience overseas and that also includes Japan, even Kara and SNSD, whose fanbases in Japan alone are probably around 100k-150k and that's been done in an effort spanning several years involving whole seasons of constant promoting while T-ara on the other hand, only began to focus entirely on Japan in recent months. And notice that CCM always came up with articles that overexaggerate T-ara time to time - such as claiming the group will give a free concert if 500k of the Jewelry albums were sold and that 'thousands' of fans greeted them at the airport (not sure if it was Vietnam or Malaysia, memory is foggy with this lol), which is illogical since that would clog up the airport itself severely. Anyways, I hope this answers what you had to ask and my apologies for confusing you :/ (pardon my strong-worded moments, it's a trait I just can't get rid of hahaha).

@Emperor Ryu, this is the final straw. Time and time again, you've shown to the entire fandom here that you've been absolutely disrespectful to others and quite frankly, even a number of regulars here (at least the ones I talked to anyway) have shown strong disdain for your fanatic and blind defense of the group and even their incompetent agency CCM, making up all sorts of rubbish excuses for them and blaming everything on people who aren't fans of the group. To my awareness, you've been constantly reported on by members here that have more than enough complaints to warrant for a heavy punishment for your behavior of shoving down your words down people's throats and making practically every attempt of a neutral discussion impossible for other people here. I've had my patience and have ignored you the best as I could but now, I've had enough of this. 1. I don't care if there's other gangs around that are of similar nature. The point is, Hyomin was involved in it and should't be seen as ANY exception to others. 2. I don't care if she's involved with them currently or not. The point is, it's a big black stain on her and should be open to discussion, while also serving as a beacon to prevent blindly fanaticism - something a lot of fandoms from Sones, ELF, Cassies, VIPs etc. have gone down to and are notorious for. Do you even have ANY idea how dangerous these iljins are? Considering you probably never even experienced bullying yourself from that kind of particular people or witnessed it in Korean schools, your opinion on it entirely is unwarranted and invalid. 3. I've clearly mentioned that such groups are among the types of most extreme delinquents but nowhere did I say Hyomin's group did blackmailing. 4. As a former anti myself (of SNSD, during mid-late 2010 all the way up to at some point last year), you clearly have zero idea how antis in general even work. What, a 'gang'? Where do you get your idiotic rhetoric of saying antis are a 'gang'? The only major 'gangs' of antis that is actually organized I can come up with is STAND which is more or less defunct and several fancafes which are more or less a minority. Antis aren't a bunched up group with their own hierarchy like fandoms. If anything, they're a disorganized bunch that are mostly individuals or every small groups of what, three to five people? And even then, they're a tiny lot compared to the majority of K-netizens who simply dislike T-ara as a whole. From your deluded logic, I could be considered anti-Obama simply because I disagree with his policies. 5. Maybe I should have rephrased it better - in general, most people with an email address or ID of some social network, tend to have the same letters and numbers so it makes remembering things a much more simpler process. It's simple logic, much like how some people have the same names for logging in various fandoms. 6. T-ara as far as I recall, none of their actions 100% showed they were absolutely apologetic or sincere. It would have been more reliable and trustworthy if the group showed their own faces on camera TOGETHER and apologized as one rather than having just one letter that is more or less very, very vague with signatures or refusing to talk in detail about the situation at the time. Block B themselves did the exact opposite by apologizing as one and in front of the camera, Zico even shaving his hair - and they certainly do not have the same amount of antis T-ara had despite their awfully controversial comments about Thailand's floodings. 7. Went after every member? The group itself was overall went after, but Eunjung, Hyomin and Jiyeon got the MOST flak - hence it would have made much more sense to target either of those three specifically than someone who's not so popular. As far as I recall, Qri wasn't even exclusively targeted herself while Areum's one got very little attention in comparison, hence makes your accusation that 'every member' was attacked by having their personal stuff thrown online invalid. 8. I don't see how you're trying to make a comparison with the United States' celebrities. It's illogical and plain stupid - Korea is not the same country as the US is and it's idiotic alone to think it should be handled the same way. The US is not the world. Additionally, these are idols. Not artists. Korea's society is nowhere near the same as the US is and it shows your lack of understanding of the former's society and culture, judging it purely from where you grew up. Idols are seen as role models to teenagers - and also a escape of reality from the hell Korean teens have to see and listen every single damn day - from bullying, suicides, gross amount of pressure on their grades and the list goes on. There is a very valid reason why agencies put a strong block on their idols' past and even alumni and only vague mentions of it are said in variety shows for the most part. Again, your understanding of how antis even work or think is limited and invalid. You certainly were not one yourself either. In the case of T-ara's antis, I can safely say most of these are teenagers or young adults who had seen friends or relatives that are victims of bullying or were victims themselves - and to see something that's a part of their escape from reality being the exact thing they have/had to endure on a daily basis obviously triggers some nasty repercussions and disappointment. Not saying it's justified, but it's undoubtedly understandable and goes to show that the typical marketed image of idols being 'perfect angels and saints' is flawed and heavily risky all the while showing how extremely serious bullying is seen in the Korean public. They don't do this completely out of joy or hatred either. And 'hating' on or pointing out a crime certainly is not a 'crime' either. Hell, then from that logic alone, I should say journalists and commenters that point out crimes of others shouldn't even deserve to give feedback and their opinions on such matters. From your logic, I may as well say the every single Wehrmacht personnel was a diehard Nazi hellbent on genocide and destruction. Your generalizations alone, are idiotic and awfully biased completely and make your arguments completely invalid and seen by others as something akin to being a typical delusional K-pop fan. Now that I think about it, I recall you judging SC2 in Soshified Sbox on saying Terran is underpowered against Protoss and Zerg when you haven't even played the game yourself at all, making your opinions baseless and invalid when talking about SC2 in detail. This is the problem with you - you're making absurd judgments and arguments when you're not exactly in a very valid position yourself to do so. At least keep it neutral if you're going to do it rather than make such blatantly biased opinions and shoving it down people's e-mouths. Finally, you've also been reported several times for nitpicking small paragraphs and twisting words out of them, hence rendering discussions and arguments almost entirely difficult to go on with. You're undoubtedly a keyboard warrior - one that's looking for trouble at that too and trying to make the forums here some happy lala land where nothing negative can be talked about regardless of intent. That's borderline to being a fanatic. As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't even doubt you probably think I'm an anti in disguise or 'influenced' by their attempts in slandering the group in every turn while trying to live in your own little world that T-ara are always going to be faultless perfect angels by smacking down on anything you see as considered negative. I don't want to go as far as openly insulting people here but you've constantly shown to be continuously a troublemaker around here regardless if intentional or not and even the staff here have shown disdain towards your attitude. And I certainly will not hesitate to report you if you repeat your actions of nitpicking of paragraphs, twisting them apart with your own nonsense and rendering discussions practically impossible to go on peacefully. It's absolutely rude, annoying and disrespectful. There is no other simpler way to describe it. Have a good day.

It wasn't just any group though - it's a group of iljins, in simply put, at Korea, your typical average school's gang members who operate much like any gang with the exception that they're minors. First of all, it wasn't actual $ex being engaged - it was $exual act or intimidation of it. And aside from that, this particular group (and possibly many other similar ones all around Korea) even sold their own bodies to older men for simply a few pack of cigarettes or some 'cash prize', whatever the latter may be, as well as exotic dance competitions and 'kiss and gr0pe' sessions with one another. From my personal experience with iljins when I was in Korea though, that sort of behavior is something far beyond what even I've seen or/and heard even among the more crazier iljins at the schools I attended there during 2007 to the end of 2009 before deciding to finish my HS education in New Zealand. For certain however, I'm firmly positive the sort of stuff Hyomin did is reserved for the extreme side of delinquents in school. Now for the proof that was shown regarding Hyomin - from what I've seen, it wasn't just her email ID. Her real name - Park Sunyoung (note; Hyomin is merely a stage name) - was also revealed in the list of names that were part of this group of iljins along with what can be seen as a photo of her during her teenhood (though this one may be fazy since it doesnt' show her face 100% clearly but then again, for a online group of iljins, I think it's safe to say most aren't stupid to think of revealing clear-cut resolution photos of themselves) - and the fact that her Hanmail e-mail ID is the exact same as her Twitter ID, not to mention generally speaking, a lot of people tend to have the same IDs (or more specifically, letters and numbers) for their social networking stuff whether it be email, Twitter, Kakaotalk etc. as it makes log-ins and giving your ID to friends to add you a much more simpler and efficient process as opposed to having entirely different IDs for each and every social networking site/app. I won't go down to say Eunjung's incident can be fully considered an actual scandal, but depending on how it's interpreted, it can be seen as one for some, for others, not. For Soyeon, regardless if it's a rumor, it was still enough to crash her image downwards and can be seen as a scandal in the eyes of some and the opposite for others like Eunjung's, albeit in a less clear-cut manner since no clear-cut evidence exists other than an anonymous account. If I had to take it at a very neutral viewpoint (note - I'm sure you'll know that Soyeon is my favorite member after Boram), the account itself can't be really disregarded either. For one thing, if it was a malicious attempt to deliberately tarnish T-ara's image, it would have made much more sense if the anonymous person targeted Hyomin, Jiyeon or Eunjung since they're the more popular (and more hated) members rather than someone who's one of the underdogs (or dare say, 'nugus') of the group, whose number of antis combined probably don't even come close to the amount of antis of either of the three members I mentioned above. Considering it was enough to tear Soyeon's individual image however, I personally would consider it a scandal in some degree. Conclusively, whether if Hyomin actually changed for the better or not is entirely up to anyone's mind (for sure, I'd imagine Hyomin's fans would have been utterly devastated upon finding out about her awful past - even I was extremely shocked myself initially). Personally, I think she only changed somewhat, and would not be someone I would want to get along with on a daily or even weekly basis. For Eunjung and Soyeon, their cases could do with a bit more in-depth investigation if possible but I certainly wouldn't let them off the hook so easily either. If there's something nasty linked around, it's always better to look into it and deal with it ASAP than leave it lying around regardless of what the result will be. Okay now I see a rambled on a bit too long XD (caught this while taking a break from writing a fanfic lol). If there's anything more to ask or discuss about this, feel free to do so