[DISC] Anti-Hwayoung and Bashing

[Darkbend]

They can't be said to be directed at anyone, but we now know they were indeed targeted at Hwayoung. In the end, those tweets were still what started everything.

And you say that "as professionals [Hwayoung and Hyoyoung] should've known that the response would identify the target," but consider that as professionals, Hyomin/Jiyeon/Eunjung should've known not to tweet that in the first place. This was what put the group at jeopardy, not Hwayoung's response. If there had been nothing to respond to, nothing would have happened.

As I've said, I couldn't care less if she was indeed the target, the problem everyone seems to ignore is IF she never responded to those tweets then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The 3 tweets would've been in the archives by now... if they just didn't act like total babies and felt the need to respond on sns... And this is assuming t-ara were really targetting her or if those tweets were really kind of offensive in the first place... What if it wasnt?

People keep looking at the situation as they do now, after it already happened. What I'm saying is this shouldn't have happened if the responses weren't made, especially Hyoyoung's response. But as I said, no one can change anyone's opinion about the matter, but it doesn't mean people can't hate on her... shes a victim yes. But she did make the matter bigger with those initial responses AND the tweets after. It can't be looked at any other way except she wanting revenge... and to bring down the group just because you were unhappy is highly unprofessional. As per Soyeon's words, there was indeed a conflict, but the twins didn't need to bring it to the public's eye.

No About her not speaking up, I myself understand that there are too many variables and internal dealings that may have come into play. That's why I'm really not counting on her to ever say anything to save t-ara.

[PrincessT-ara]

If there was no harm mean't in their Twitter comments when Hwayoung responded to them, they should have explained right then that their intention was not to harm her and that they apologize if there was a misunderstanding and then went on to clarify the true meaning of what they said. That could have been nipped in the bud in a matter of minutes. They are all grown women, some of them close to 30 in age, they should have been able to reconcile amongst themselves. If they had an issue with her, they should have addressed her either in person or on the phone. Using Twitter (or any social networking website) as a means to air out your dirty laundry with other people is very immature and unwise for anyone. In my opinion, the behavior displayed in the Twitter situation is inexcusable and can only be chalked up to being a poor decision that was obviously not thought through before posting.

[SimonH]

I wholly advocate stepping up and calmly and logically defending T-ara

This is going to be really difficult since most of the haters lack common sense. Heck, I could spend less effort teaching a child about presumption of innocence than to educate haters on why it's better to love something than to hate it.

[josiexjo]

I have to say, I actually agree with Scatter_88mil's point. When you're trying to defend one side (I'm using you as in general you xD), you often get lost in the heat of an argument, trying to explain why one side did what they did and often end up 'bashing' the other side.. but the fact is, the real target of criticism should be Kim Kwangsoo and CCM. Yes, both Hwayoung and T-ara have their share of responsibility in this issue and one side's wrongdoing doesn't cancel the other's, but if you think about it the way this blew up out of proportion can't be described in other way than utterly ridiculous. It's pointless to try and lay the blame on Hwayoung or T-ara, this wouldn't have happened in a competent management company. Actually, what surprises me given CCM's management and PR history, is that a f**k up of this magnitude didn't happen sooner. They really screwed up by saying the 'twitters were hacked', thus not giving them the chance to fix the issue or explain themselves through twitter asap.

[DanielTan]

"but the fact is, the real target of criticism should be Kim Kwangsoo and CCM."

[boramfan]

ah, i don't know. all of your posts (klee, maknae) are well written, they make sense for me. lol. thanks for sharing your opinion. ^^

But anyway, as pointless as it seems, they all should have a press conference. All of them, the T-ara members and Hwayoung. I know it's a bit too late and I know it may be pointless but that's the only way to alleviate the problem. They might be accused of being fake *****es but they should at least shed some tears and say sorry to each other during the conference and at the end of it, shake hands and hug each other (Hwayoung included). And Qri unnie needs to cry. Please UNNIE JUST SHED A TEAR. Use the press conference to clarify themselves and if the haters continue to hate, then I'll have nothing to say. The press conference is not solely used to calm down haters though but it's also for the fans as well. I've been very tired and frustrated about them keeping quiet and not clarifying things. But I'll continue to dream for that day cause unless KKS trips, gets his head knocked on a table and suffers from amnesia like in the dramas, it wouldn't happen.

this is the very basic reaction and this is what i thought CCM would pull when the rumor first came out.... srsly, this man is really full of (ugly) surprises. random: are you a younha fans? (peace, love, and ice cream reference). me too, lol. xD

If there was no harm mean't in their Twitter comments when Hwayoung responded to them, they should have explained right then that their intention was not to harm her and that they apologize if there was a misunderstanding and then went on to clarify the true meaning of what they said. That could have been nipped in the bud in a matter of minutes. They are all grown women, some of them close to 30 in age, they should have been able to reconcile amongst themselves. If they had an issue with her, they should have addressed her either in person or on the phone. Using Twitter (or any social networking website) as a means to air out your dirty laundry with other people is very immature and unwise for anyone. In my opinion, the behavior displayed in the Twitter situation is inexcusable and can only be chalked up to being a poor decision that was obviously not thought through before posting.

while i agree it was very unprofessional, soyeon has said in her interview that they decided to let their company clean up the mess because they're afraid to cause another ruckus. it's a very basic move. even if they later tweet and give their sentiment, the tweet must be reviewed by the company PR team first so it won't create another misinterpretation. i think they'd probably do what you've wrote here, if it's not for stupid CCM PR team.

[klee95]

@klee, don't be mad, I'm sorry if I offended you .___. I feel like I'm in a debate or something. First of all, I would like to clarify again that I don't hate Hwayoung and I'll be looking for her future projects especially with her sister. Since both of them are so miserable being in a group, they should just form a duo instead.

And you are saying that if T-ara members feel unhappy, it's their business and we as fans have no business with this. If it's so, why are we even "protecting" them against the antis, why are we even fuming at antis' comments, it's because we are putting ourselves in their shoes. But yeah, I'll admit that we have no rights to judge Hwayoung and I'm sorry if I sounded like I'm putting all the blame on her alone. I'll say that all of them are at fault but we can't change what happened so there's no point blaming it on anyone except on some particular owner of the Midas Touch.

Did I seem mad or something?

You're missing my point; it wouldn't have even been the beauty salon specifically, just the fact that Hwayoung got to rest that may have upset the other members. There was no way around that, and I fail to see her having fault when locked in that kind of situation. Consideration for others can only be expected to go so far...relinquishing time to rest? Hardly reasonable. Understanding that a fellow member has some time off for an injury? Slightly easier. In the greater scheme of things, this shouldn't have been such a big issue that it was necessary to go on Twitter.

But anyway, I think you misunderstood me - what I meant is that we don't have much of a right to judge on inter-group business. For one, we can't really know what goes behind the scenes (let's face it, we don't really know T-ara), not to mention it really is their business and their business alone - it's a matter of their private lives. It's entirely different from defending against antis, and it shouldn't be compared.

And...no, we're not putting ourselves in their shoes. We may feel indignant for them, sure, but people are mostly throwing their anger around without this selfless empathy you're talking about. People are fuming because they can't stand an attack on THEIR idols, lol. Call me cynical if you want.

As I've said, I couldn't care less if she was indeed the target, the problem everyone seems to ignore is IF she never responded to those tweets then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The 3 tweets would've been in the archives by now... if they just didn't act like total babies and felt the need to respond on sns... And this is assuming t-ara were really targetting her or if those tweets were really kind of offensive in the first place... What if it wasnt?

People keep looking at the situation as they do now, after it already happened. What I'm saying is this shouldn't have happened if the responses weren't made, especially Hyoyoung's response. But as I said, no one can change anyone's opinion about the matter, but it doesn't mean people can't hate on her... shes a victim yes. But she did make the matter bigger with those initial responses AND the tweets after. It can't be looked at any other way except she wanting revenge... and to bring down the group just because you were unhappy is highly unprofessional.

Honestly, this: "As I've said, I couldn't care less if she was indeed the target..." I'm not quite sure how to respond in a civil manner, so pardon any bluntness in the following paragraphs.

No, you are still ignoring that if the other members hadn't tweeted their complaints, none of this would have happened. You can't blame the person who reacted and not the person who instigated - that's obvious bias, I'm afraid. Nothing wrong with bias, but it shouldn't cloud logical judgment. If you're going to speak of "acting like babies" I can start railing on OLDER MEMBERS starting everything and responding, despite being OLDER and thus supposedly more mature and more professional.

And there is no assumption the tweets were targeted at Hwayoung, Soyeon admitted as such in her interview. The tweets after I have already discussed in my original post; again, reasonable defenses and sentiments. It can, very easily, be looked at as something other than wanting revenge - what is this, a drama? Next you know, Hwayoung will sprout a barbed tail and horns like a devil.

Being professional applies to all members, not just Hwayoung and Hyoyoung. You're not being very objective if you don't apply your vein of logic to the other members as well.

If there was no harm mean't in their Twitter comments when Hwayoung responded to them, they should have explained right then that their intention was not to harm her and that they apologize if there was a misunderstanding and then went on to clarify the true meaning of what they said. That could have been nipped in the bud in a matter of minutes. They are all grown women, some of them close to 30 in age, they should have been able to reconcile amongst themselves. If they had an issue with her, they should have addressed her either in person or on the phone. Using Twitter (or any social networking website) as a means to air out your dirty laundry with other people is very immature and unwise for anyone. In my opinion, the behavior displayed in the Twitter situation is inexcusable and can only be chalked up to being a poor decision that was obviously not thought through before posting.

Highly, HIGHLY agree with this. Everything was started by Hyomin's Twitter message. Please take note, Darkbend.

[Emperor Ryu]

I think we're way pass the tweets at this point, given how both Soyeon and Hwayoung have stated that there was no bullying. Sure, they could've immediately gone back to their twitter accounts, right after they made those messages to each other, and make things more clear about them for those who didn't understand, however, given the nature of the tweets, it shouldn't have been misunderstood, in the first place. Even though we don't place ourselves in their shoes, but from their statements offer an explanation as to why they didn't. So it would be quite understood from their point of view to be confused and quite shocked (The given statements from Soyeon and Hwayoung.) at all of the allegations being made up out of something that clearly was not an indication about bullying, let alone ostracizing a member from the group.

It doesn't really surprise me that much that others are still calling for a "Press Conference" to address the tweets. As for the "evidence" that started spilling forth not long after them, from the depths of the evil abyss, ended up obviously debunked, discredited, and denounced back from whence it came. As I stated elsewhere, it wouldn't make any sense for them to logically have a media circus event on this issue, when there's a contingent that won't take their word of truth, based on all of the aftermath that soon followed both Soyeon's interview and Hwayoung's recent tweets, including Hwayoung's friend, twin sister Hyoyoung, and both Jiyeon's and Eunjung's mother. It is unfortunate that Kim Kwang Soo ended up as the boy who cried wolf, one too many times, and thus hardly anybody listens to him, even if he did tell the truth from time to time. I'm not saying I'm siding with him, though, I will point out, at least the man can and does change his decisions in what he's doing, and actually believes in second chances and to do better next time. If others don't want him to have another chance, then simply cooperate with the police, and the authorities, get an investigation going that will gather all essential evidence which will get a solid guilty conviction in court that sends him to jail for a very long time, and cannot do business in the entertainment industry ever again, even if he gets released at an earlier time.

[maknae23]

@Klee, yeah u sounded mad especially at some of the Queen's. I am not going to argue anymore on the beauty salon issue cause you have your point but sometimes it's easier to be said than done. I'll say that yes I am fuming because I can't stand attacks on T-ara but I get angry as well when people label Hwa as a b!tch even though I don't really pay attention to her before this (I'm sorry). I don't know about others but upright bashing is just not right (and you are right about that).

I've read so many bad comments about Hwayoung (which some of them made sense to me) but I have learned to control myself and to try to be as neutral as possible because I know she's not the sole person to be blamed on this matter. If you blame Hwayoung, blame it on T-ara too. I've already mentioned why I sway towards T-ara a tad more in my earlier post and it has very little to do with Hwa having a happy selca or the Infinite concert or the manicure issue. I sort of understand why some Queen's took the bashing/hating road. We're all frustrated, angry and tired after a month of controversy and when you are exhausted, you say and do things in the wrong way (same to T-ara). Maybe for you it's a lame excuse but since I've experienced it before, I know what exhaustion and frustration can do to your mind.

As I've mentioned previously, in the end it all comes down to your personal preference, who's your bias and who do you choose to believe. You can't change a person's thought that easily, that's stigma for you. But, I understand where you are coming from and thank you for your posts which enlighten me a lot on this matter. Thank you. I'll stop for now but I'll continue stalking your fanfics.

random: are you a younha fans? (peace, love, and ice cream reference). me too, lol. xD

Not exactly a fan but I like some of her songs and her voice. I knew her from the Bleach anime and later I realized that she's a Korean !!

[ljk67]

@klee, don't be mad, I'm sorry if I offended you .___. I feel like I'm in a debate or something.

And Qri unnie needs to cry. Please UNNIE JUST SHED A TEAR.

I.WANT.MY.SEXY.BACK. Peace, love and ice cream?

These three statements are giving me whiplash. Debate, but...you start becoming bipolar?

MAAAAGICAL MERMAID TEARS will save the day, alright! Qri's tears can move heaven and hell!

[Kyon-Z]

They are young teens and prone to make mistakes. Things gets ugly so seeing Hwayoung booted was a harsh yet understandable. CCM should reveal it on the spot instead of keep it for too long, resulting in the biggest controversies in K-Pop for years.

I can go back and forth about this but either way both CCM/T-ara and the public itself play they parts in this melodrama.

[Emperor Ryu]

CCM should reveal it on the spot instead of keep it for too long, resulting in the biggest controversies in K-Pop for years.

Reveal what? What Kim Kwang Soo said earlier was confirmed by our girls.

[Kyon-Z]

Reveal what? What Kim Kwang Soo said earlier was confirmed by our girls.

[Emperor Ryu]

@Kyon-Z

I have no idea what is being said in that animated gif.

[Kyon-Z]

Ryu,

I like that gif, it cracks me up.

Btw, what i meant is that CCM's habit of "keeping" things to themselves are eating them up. They should resolve it quickly before things getting out of control. CCM, needs to learn from this controversies.

Also, it seems that you quoted my post in here but..

[Emperor Ryu]

what i meant is that CCM's habit of "keeping" things to themselves are eating them up. They should resolve it quickly before things getting out of control. CCM, needs to learn from this controversies.

That's the irony in all of this. Not that many people want to believe with what they're saying, even though they've made mistakes and apologized for them before. It's like they are unforgiving to the company and not allowing any leeway for them to gain redemption.

[klee95]

In all fairness, CCM changes its story so often that it has little to no credibility. It keeps doing it, too, that's the annoying part. After the fifth time, I'm not inclined to believe any of the statements CCM releases.

Especially with this whole thing. Seriously, I've lost track of all the different stories - if they were going to clear it up, they should have gone with the truth the first time around and stuck with it.

These three statements are giving me whiplash. Debate, but...you start becoming bipolar?

MAAAAGICAL MERMAID TEARS will save the day, alright! Qri's tears can move heaven and hell!

This is seriously just too much win \o/

[Timtam]

To the author of this thread...

First I would like to say I admire your courage for speaking up about this topic....My self don't have a guts to do that since I've seen many people bashing/ blaming Hwa nowadays and I'm just sicking tired of telling them why they shouldn't....

Honesty I thought of making a thread like this and clear everything up but then again.....I might get a bunch of bashing comments towards me...and more bashing comments towards Hwa.

Defend one side doesn't mean you bash the other side....that is so true....When I defend Hwa in front of Queens...that does not mean I don't love T-ara anymore.....

The people who blaming Hwa and such....I see them no different than the antis and haters.... Don't ask me why I feel that way....It's obvious in all their actions.....even though we're standing under on roof.....it still doesn't change the fact that I now realize how many of us are actually love all T-ara no matter what happened.....

Everyone made mistakes in their life, no-one is perfect, you have to accept it and move on.....

Who are you to judge anyone if you're no better than them???

Second I agreed with all your points, because they are similar to my points of view about this whole thing too....

Thank you again for speaking up....really admire your courage...

[Kyon-Z]

That's the irony in all of this. Not that many people want to believe with what they're saying, even though they've made mistakes and apologized for them before. It's like they are unforgiving to the company and not allowing any leeway for them to gain redemption.

Community can be harsh to you especially if you stand there as a public figure. When you become one, act like one. They did but then they tweeted those words, that sparked everything.

Company, i have nothing more to say about CCM. They make great songs but just that. Nothing more. With turtleneck tight pants CEO as their supreme leader, what more can you ask other than to trust his 30 years of experience.

Redemption? Mirage.

I hope so.

[Emperor Ryu]

In all fairness, CCM changes its story so often that it has little to no credibility. It keeps doing it, too, that's the annoying part. After the fifth time, I'm not inclined to believe any of the statements CCM releases.

Especially with this whole thing. Seriously, I've lost track of all the different stories - if they were going to clear it up, they should have gone with the truth the first time around and stuck with it.

That's understandable. For myself, I can be quite forgiving and willing to listen to what they have to say, and sometimes, the real truth comes out without having to be so harsh about it. I don't really condone their changes from time to time, because that at least tells me that they are open to other possibilities more often than just sticking to a mistake for the sake of clinging onto money. Like for example, company was going to press charges against a young teenager, but then decided to be lenient, even though the company vowed to get an absolute guilty verdict on anybody who criminally acted against them. Well, all I can say, in the business world, companies are not that perfect either. *shrugs*

Community can be harsh to you especially if you stand there as a public figure. When you become one, act like one. They did but then they tweeted those words, that sparked everything.

Company, i have nothing more to say about CCM. They make great songs but just that. Nothing more. With turtleneck tight pants CEO as their supreme leader, what more can you ask other than to trust his 30 years of experience.

Redemption? Mirage.

I hope so.

True, celebrities in general are indeed role models in their careers, despite some of their attempts to disillusion themselves and remove such a responsibility for the sake of the humanizing aspects in life to the public. Granted, that's the most acceptable means to ease that burden of responsibility down onto the ground, but for this instance, and others in the past entertainment history around the world, it doesn't work all the time. I don't hold it against them.

I think being focused on the companies accomplishments is probably for the best for everybody now, and look forward to good things from our beloved girls.

[Kyon-Z]

Oh Klee..

Put yourself together boy, T-ara's comeback is near.

True, celebrities in general are indeed role models in their careers, despite some of their attempts to disillusion themselves and remove such a responsibility for the sake of the humanizing aspects in life to the public. Granted, that's the most acceptable means to ease that burden of responsibility down onto the ground, but for this instance, and others in the past entertainment history around the world, it doesn't work all the time. I don't hold it against them.

I think being focused on the companies accomplishments is probably for the best for everybody now, and look forward to good things from our beloved girls.

Funny that my beloved girl group become the most controversional. *sigh*

But if from what i believe that had happened to SNSD and Big Bang, their next comeback should determine their destiny whether they are up to it like they use to be or vice versa. I prefer the first one.

You, me, and whateva people in here; support them. I know i will.

Thank you btw for this convo.

[Emperor Ryu]

Funny that my beloved girl group become the most controversional. *sigh*

But if from what i believe that had happened to SNSD and Big Bang, their next comeback should determine their destiny whether they are up to it like they use to be or vice versa. I prefer the first one.

You, me, and whateva people in here; support them. I know i will.

Thank you btw for this convo.

Well, I like to think T-ara is an idol group still in the works to become better. Some groups have huge successes without that much difficulty, and some go down very hard with lots of problems and make that exit stage left or right. I think believe T-ara is in the middle of that Top Echelon of the female group category, but nevertheless, still one of the best.

Yeah, all idols have their destinies in their capable hands, it's up to them. Me too, I hope for the best to them all.

I like that.

Thank you to you as well, my friend. I enjoyed this conversation very much, and as much, I appreciate klee95's thread too. Thank you, klee95.

[klee95]

@Kyon - Put myself together? Is something wrong with me? ^___~

I HATEZ T-ARA BULLIES BECUZ I SUPPORT POOR HWAYOUNGIEEEEEEE!!!1!1!!! U CAN LIKEZ ONLY ONE SIDE MKAYYYY~!!!

...Ahem. Come at me, I'm ready for the lynching.

@Ryu - Thank you for commenting; glad to see my thread got so many well-thought out responses.

[Kyon-Z]

Calm your teeets, Klee. It is all in the past. Just leave it there. Time to move on. There's nothing you can do about it. Okay?

Also, never get yourself influenced by those rumors.

Well, I like to think T-ara is an idol group still in the works to become better. Some groups have huge successes without that much difficulty, and some go down very hard with lots of problems and make that exit stage left or right. I think believe T-ara is in the middle of that Top Echelon of the female group category, but nevertheless, still one of the best.

Yeah, all idols have their destinies in their capable hands, it's up to them. Me too, I hope for the best to them all.

I like that.

Thank you to you as well, my friend. I enjoyed this conversation very much, and as much, I appreciate klee95's thread too. Thank you, klee95.

I appreciate it, preach this convo.

Sorry i can't help it, i tend to use images. Lol.

[Timtam]

Calm your tits, Klee. It is all in the past. Just leave it there. Time to move on. There's nothing you can do about it. Okay?

Just saying......is that word "t*ts" you used there is appropriate mate??? u might wanna edit it before the Mod does....