[SPECIAL/INFO ] Chronology of T-ara controversy

[Kamisa]

Posting so i can remember this thread. I honestly don't like netizens but what can you do about it..

The fact that they managed to come out of this scandal strong is good. I hope something like this doesn't happen again for any group and that netizens can reflect on it to improve their attitude towards such situations.

[CySuchy]

Wow... Netizens are crazy :/

Did you see this? Apparently students at inha university made this banner...

]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-r82azbyzvTQ/UE3RpVT1ykI/AAAAAAAAA3Q/cwmXgS9hOfk/s1600/inha_banner.jpg

It says "the ability to graduate and find a job is a difference in deterimination" (they wrote that because of the tweets) and the pictures are apparently of Eunjung + Jiyeon...

WOWW>>>>

Its been 2 years,, but I just found out about this banner today,,

And my heart is still hurt whenever i read or heard something about this scandal

[pyj1234_JiBabyDino]

Actually, I became a kpop fan because of Day by Day MV. =D Then suddenly, the bullying issue surfaced the internet world. I'm happy that I'm not included to those haters who easily believed the issue without knowing the whole story =)

[kaeunie]

This was really helpful.

Back when the scandal started, I admit I was surprised/shocked and a little taken aback.

But I started digging for the truth after a while - and yes, T-ara members are only human.

They work hard, and seeing someone not working as hard as they are might be off-putting.

I've seen it with my own eyes, before, in my personal life. So I feel bad this ever happened.

To say Hwayoung was bullied is over-exaggerating the situation. Maybe a few conflicts, yes, but everyone has those in their own groups.

No one is a perfect saint.

[chibiidol]

I dont believe that whole bullying thing i think thats nonsense constructed by peoples imagination, The basic impression i got from watching old T-ara videos and was that Hwayoung was simply an outcast in the group (as in she didnt click with the girls). This was confirmed in my head by jiyeons comment "she might have had trouble adjusting". But i mean It was easy for me to pick up on anyway since i myself was an outcast in groups and classes often growing up. Those times were very painful for me so it was also painful to watch aswell, felt like i was reliving it i felt bad for her.

However I dont blame the T-ara members for her being an outcast because it simply is not their fault that their personalities didn't match up, and i believe that they did try their best to make her included based on what i saw. But theres only so much you can do if its just not ment to be

I like Hwayoung, i will support her in her future endeavours.

[Uncle fan]

It just turns my stomach all over again to go back to that time. It did happen and cannot be denied, but let's move onward and upward. Queen's love their Queens and we will always support them!!

[chibiidol]

I just found out about it last week so its still fresh to me. Now that i gave my comment i wont mention it anymore

sorry i brought up old bitter memories for you

[Scatter_88mil]

I dont believe that whole bullying thing i think thats nonsense constructed by peoples imagination, The basic impression i got from watching old T-ara videos and was that Hwayoung was simply an outcast in the group (as in she didnt click with the girls). This was confirmed in my head by jiyeons comment "she might have had trouble adjusting". But i mean It was easy for me to pick up on anyway since i myself was an outcast in groups and classes often growing up. Those times were very painful for me so it was also painful to watch aswell, felt like i was reliving it i felt bad for her.

However I dont blame the T-ara members for her being an outcast because it simply is not their fault that their personalities didn't match up, and i believe that they did try their best to make her included based on what i saw. But theres only so much you can do if its just not ment to be

I like Hwayoung, i will support her in her future endeavours.

I take it you're not well-versed in the topic of 'bullying' in Korea.

What the girls did in Twitter, was undeniably wrong and it showed everyone their...'unkindly' side, and people do have the right to be suspicious of them in TV. Being an 'outcast' in Korea usually translates to being bullied (whether through physical or verbal abuse or being ostracized) - which in any case, the term of it would be wangdda/왕따, and from that, Hwayoung fitted that term just right.

Even if their personalities didn't match, the group could have at least kept things professional and not resort to hostile behavior in public. This is what the group themselves admitted last year, and do regret (though for whatever blasted reason, some fans seem to think they were never in the wrong and act like they are 100% angels from heaven), and in the long run, effectively put a curse on themselves. You don't see other groups doing what they did when they go through member lineups, conflicts or have members that contrast with one another.

Bluntly put, everyone has their own fault. Nobody is clean in that incident at all, contrary to what fans and antis alike claim.

[phucth91]

I take it you're not well-versed in the topic of 'bullying' in Korea.

What the girls did in Twitter, was undeniably wrong and it showed everyone their...'unkindly' side, and people do have the right to be suspicious of them in TV. Being an 'outcast' in Korea usually translates to being bullied (whether through physical or verbal abuse or being ostracized) - which in any case, the term of it would be wangdda/왕따, and from that, Hwayoung fitted that term just right.

Even if their personalities didn't match, the group could have at least kept things professional and not resort to hostile behavior in public. This is what the group themselves admitted last year, and do regret (though for whatever blasted reason, some fans seem to think they were never in the wrong and act like they are 100% angels from heaven), and in the long run, effectively put a curse on themselves. You don't see other groups doing what they did when they go through member lineups, conflicts or have members that contrast with one another.

Bluntly put, everyone has their own fault. Nobody is clean in that incident at all, contrary to what fans and antis alike claim.

It's not like they just came out and did that with no reason at all. They probably were frustrated but still tried to keep it private until the day they didn't want to hold back anymore. You know there's a term about the straw that broke the camel's back. And for me criticizing somebody when she's at fault is no where near bullying. And I doubt that there's someone who never did that once in their life. I probably have bullied so many friends of mine by saying straight to their faces in front of others about the wrongs they have been doing. For idols yup that was unprofessional, that was immature, that was bad teammate but it was understandable and they did apologize. They're not angels, they're humans, humans make mistakes here and there and to think of the pressure they were under I would probably go insane at some points. Holding onto such a common problem like that and blaming everything on their heads is just bullsh*t. Totally hypocritical and truly bullying. If you say that's a traditional thing to do in Korea then I have nothing else to say. The people there are sick.

For Hwayoung, I'm sick of her and her latest interview.

[Scatter_88mil]

It's not like they just came out and did that with no reason at all. They probably were frustrated but still tried to keep it private until the day they didn't want to hold back anymore. You know there's a term about the straw that broke the camel's back. And for me criticizing somebody when she's at fault is no where near bullying. And I doubt that there's someone who never did that once in their life. For idols yup that was unprofessional, that was immature, that was bad teammate but they did apologize.

I never said, claimed or implied they did it for no reason.

Yes, CCM's poor incompetent management system had played an immense role that vented up that frustration in the leading months to that scandal (and this is what I heavily emphasize on my other posts, as it's arguably the biggest factor), but that does not make it a legitimate excuse to defend the group for what happened at late July. That's like saying it's okay for me to punch someone in the face because he called me a lazy ass in class.

It's understandable, but in the end, it was still very poor conduct in regards to their career and a decision that still opened Pandora's Box, regardless of apology.

This is something what the fandom tends to overlook or downplay.

Secondly, I find it difficult to believe that Hwayoung is one at more fault - what exactly was her 'fault'? Disobeying CCM's protocol that you have to perform regardless of injury or not? I recommend you klee95's post somewhere in the Discussons Forum from 2012 regarding the whole 'Hwayoung is at fault' notion. In any case that you bring up the 'but Jiyeon, Soyeon and Eunjung performed when they had injuries!' excuse that some fans in the past had brought up, that doesn't make a valid excuse either.

The idol life is physically and mentally demanding as hell - as far as I'm concerned, forcing/demanding or even expecting someone to perform on stage when they have a cast that immobilizes you is no different to making a soldier with badly broken arms do 40 pushups and 20 pullups for daily morning PT or running 2.4km within 10 minutes with a broken foot.

nd holding onto such a common problem like that and blaming everything on their heads is just bullsh*t. Totally hypocritical. If you say that's a traditional thing to do in Korea then I have nothing else to say. The people there are sick.

To understand the full length of it, one has also to take account of how things are taken into view there as well. Applying your own culture or personal standards 100% on an incident that occurred thousands of miles offshore....probably not the most rational take in the full scale of things, imo. Perhaps it's because I'm Korean myself that has experienced both the country's general culture and that of a Western country, hence reluctant at best to pick a side and a lot less sensitive about it, unlike most people within the i-fandom part of K-pop (in fact, I'd say vast cultural barriers are precisely why the K-fandoms and I-fandoms of a lot of idol groups will never get along very well).

I'm in no way saying what T-ara's antis/haters and critics say is 100% right (nor have I ever stated this), but it was five of the then-eight members that effectively fired the shots when they had option of doing it in a much more rational manner that would have led to much better results for everyone involved. But that did not happen, and it's a cruel memory they have to live with regardless of what everyone says. That is the reality.

The real tragedy for the group is that it was an incident that could have easily been contained if cooler heads prevailed.

If you have a serious problem with the people that don't like T-ara, here's my personal advice;

Pretend they don't exist.

It works, but for some reason, a lot of people within T-ara's fandom (and just about every other fandom actually) showed to be very incapable of such a very easy and simple task. I suggest you take that to heart. SNSD's fandom had went through worse, with the whole black ocean incident at the 2008 Dream Concert and having an actual anti-fan organization called 'STAND' that was pretty much hellbent on taking them down - yet, no attention was paid to it by the fandom for the most part, and STAND ultimately became defunct in early 2012.

[phucth91]

I never said, claimed or implied they did it for no reason.

Yes, CCM's poor incompetent management system had played an immense role that vented up that frustration in the leading months to that scandal (and this is what I heavily emphasize on my other posts, as it's arguably the biggest factor), but that does not make it a legitimate excuse to defend the group for what happened at late July. That's like saying it's okay for me to punch someone in the face because he called me a lazy ass in class.

It's understandable, but in the end, it was still very poor conduct in regards to their career and a decision that still opened Pandora's Box, regardless of apology.

This is something what the fandom tends to overlook or downplay.

Secondly, I find it difficult to believe that Hwayoung is one at more fault - what exactly was her 'fault'? Disobeying CCM's protocol that you have to perform regardless of injury or not? I recommend you klee95's post somewhere in the Discussons Forum from 2012 regarding the whole 'Hwayoung is at fault' notion. In any case that you bring up the 'but Jiyeon, Soyeon and Eunjung performed when they had injuries!' excuse that some fans in the past had brought up, that doesn't make a valid excuse either.

The idol life is physically and mentally demanding as hell - as far as I'm concerned, forcing/demanding or even expecting someone to perform on stage when they have a cast that immobilizes you is no different to making a soldier with badly broken arms do 40 pushups and 20 pullups for daily morning PT or running 2.4km within 10 minutes with a broken foot.

To understand the full length of it, one has also to take account of how things are taken into view there as well. Applying your own culture or personal standards 100% on an incident that occurred thousands of miles offshore....probably not the most rational take in the full scale of things, imo. Perhaps it's because I'm Korean myself that has experienced both the country's general culture and that of a Western country, hence reluctant at best to pick a side and a lot less sensitive about it, unlike most people within the i-fandom part of K-pop (in fact, I'd say vast cultural barriers are precisely why the K-fandoms and I-fandoms of a lot of idol groups will never get along very well).

I'm in no way saying what T-ara's antis/haters and critics say is 100% right (nor have I ever stated this), but it was five of the then-eight members that effectively fired the shots when they had option of doing it in a much more rational manner that would have led to much better results for everyone involved. But that did not happen, and it's a cruel memory they have to live with regardless of what everyone says. That is the reality.

The real tragedy for the group is that it was an incident that could have easily been contained if cooler heads prevailed.

If you have a serious problem with the people that don't like T-ara, here's my personal advice;

Pretend they don't exist.

It works, but for some reason, a lot of people within T-ara's fandom (and just about every other fandom actually) showed to be very incapable of such a very easy and simple task. I suggest you take that to heart. SNSD's fandom had went through worse, with the whole black ocean incident at the 2008 Dream Concert and having an actual anti-fan organization called 'STAND' that was pretty much hellbent on taking them down - yet, no attention was paid to it by the fandom for the most part, and STAND ultimately became defunct in early 2012.

Pretend they don't exist? LOL you're witnessing some serious crime and you say you better step aside and pretend it's not there? I'm not that kind of person really. Maybe it's not a crime for you but it's a crime for me, it's against humanity and morals people keep telling each other to achieve. They just don't simply 'don't like', they hate and curse, they spread false rumours and witch hunt, for what? For something they don't even know if it happened or not.

Yeah the girls had options, and they chose the wrong one, they made mistakes, but seriously who hasn't once in their life anyway? Do you really have the right to judge when it's yourself who haven't been able to avoid mistakes more than hundred times already? What are you making a big fuss about? A little small mistake made under pressure. And you treat them like they're serial killers. Really? Now you say it's because they're expected to be better. LOL, then it's your problem, not theirs, because you want them to be perfect angels when they're clearly humans just like you.

About Hwayoung, lying and going to Beauty Salon is not a fault? Hey I admit T-ara were at fault there. But Hwayoung wasn't? Really?

Hey both parties were wrong, but you outsiders really have no right to keep nagging at them looking at what you've been doing yourselves for 2 years regards all efforts the girls have put into (apologizing, reflecting, working hard). I can never overlook, if not, forgive this. Cultural or not, that's not humanity. And worse, the kids in my country are affected, too. They don't even know what happened they just hate T-ara because it's trendy. T-ara's mistake is just like everybody's mistake but the reaction is far worse. I would like to call it a sin. Try to downplay this with the cultural thingy or something, it's still wrong to the core. Just because your country struggles with bullying issue doesn't mean you have the right to close your eyes and bully those who are rumoured to be bullies.

You could criticize them for their poor conduct and behavior but their mistake was understandable and plus, they reflected and apologized so you should forgive them and give them another chance instead of being a douchebag blaming everything not even related on their heads. This is not overlooking, this is understanding and forgiving. This is the better conduct. You won't be better men than they are trying to fight their poor conduct with so much worse conduct of yours LOL (I'm directing this to those people still hate them after 2 years not you Scatter but you should stop defending those douchebags already).

[ai mi]

Guys....peace...no war.....

everything occured let it be...nothing can change.

everybody make mistake...just give them a chance...they are not criminals..

don't push them to the edge...give them support....

somebody will become really...really bad if more pressure put on..

but they also can do good if u guide them and give them support....

(don't waste water because u hear about the rain...who knows the rain might come....? )

sorry for my bad english....

luv T-ara n luv u guys....

[chibiidol]

Lol what is going on in this thread, i feel to blame for this happening

Honestly I agree they were wrong for posting things on twitter, and i always thought that, i just never bothered to mention it because i didnt want to disrupt the piece..

Obviously that failed horribly.

The only thing i dont really agree with is saying SNSD went through worse. Its been a long time and even now when i mention T-ara to a new korean friend they bring up the bully incident. It upsetting...

Everything else is probably some kind of a cultural difference in values, i prefer the forgiving western value in this case sorry i think theres really no changing minds when it comes to stuff like that.

I think we should all just settle for what we should agree on as members of a T-ara fansite.

That is, T-ara made a mistake(s) but we still support them as group

T-ara fighting~

[kpopalypse]

Lol what is going on in this thread, i feel to blame for this happening

Don't blame yourself. I know EXACTLY who is to blame.

I pretty much almost never post here, I prefer just to read, but I had to break my usual rule to tell you this:

For the information of all T-ara fans: Scatter_88mil posts comments under Netizenbuzz under the name Black Plague and if you scout most articles with the tag T-ara on that site and look for his input you'll see him consistently making pro-netizen comments and defending netizens' cyberbullying of T-ara. He did it over such a consistent period over such a length of time since the scandal that he got a reputation with Queen's as a T-ara anti (many of you will recognise the name Black Plague I'm sure) and other T-ara fans such as Jacques Peterson (who runs the site Arcadey and has always been pro T-ara) now just see him as only a concern-troll interested in spreading hate for T-ara and tear him to shreds at every opportunity. Example:

Ouch! The perfect response to the "Hyomin is an iljin" complaints, by the way. Remember it.

Anyway I wouldn't believe any claims from Scatter about being "impartial", and "weighing the two sides", it's well documented which side he's on. Anyone in doubt, do some searching. Scatter, I'm not saying you're NOT a fan somewhere deep down (all antis are), but if you're going to participate in a fan forum, you should try acting like a fan, at least out of politeness and respect for the other members.

[arcadey]

I don't understand why Scatter/Black Plague, whatever that freak's name is hasn't been banned from here yet. It's a T-ara forum yet all he does is trash T-ara. It's so bizarre that he would even continue to visit this website when he clearly doesn't like T-ara. Admins can you bad this loser once and for all?

[maknae23]

Gosh you guys. It has been 2 years.

Topic locked.